Salve Regina : Organ Accompaniment : by Koerber
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Composed this in the last 24 hours. Been searching for an organ accomp for this chant without much luck.

    mp3 recordings with and without the melody so you can hear the organ part clearly.

    Compliments of MyOpus to all.

    (I find that in composing chant accomps it is good to include suspensions and unexpected turns that follow the mode in strict form.)
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    UPDATE... I just caught two ties that are missing.. will post revision soon.

    UPDATE AGAIN... no, three...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Revised version... added missing ties and a very small signature :)
    salveRegina1.1.pdf
    5M
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Francis,
    I'll bite. Why are some notes in red?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    CGZ... alternate pedal line
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    I wouldn't say "alternate" if you mean bass that may be optionally taken by pedals. "Alternate"s are the blue chords, sometimes to the right and sometimes to the left of what they replace.But the harmonization itself is quite attractive, as I've come to expect of you, Francis.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I guess what I was thinking was alternate treatments to performing the bass line as follows (my professor always said to play three parts in the hands for SATB hymnody and leave the B for pedal alone)

    1. manuals alone (fl 8)
    2. manuals (red and black) pedals (red) (man: fl 8, ped: fl 16)
    3. manuals (black), pedals (red) (man: fl 8, ped: fl 16, 8)

    But yes, you are correct Richard... alternates in this piece are the blue chords.
  • alexandermccune
    Posts: 10
    A very nice arrangement. Several phrases seem to end with suggestions of V-I, which I would avoid.
    But wow - what a gorgeous design!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Alexadermccune

    Can you elaborate on your comments. I would like to develop the art of accomp based on knowledge of those who are immersed in the chant.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Alexander,

    Do you mean that you would avoid V-I except at a final cadence, or completely avoid this modern music cadential formula?
  • Heath
    Posts: 933
    Francis and Chris, I believe the V-I is always to be avoided in chant organ accompaniment. I believe Eugene Lapierre was quite insistent about that in his manual. (though there are other schools of thought...I can't speak about the V-I in all of them)
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Heath

    Thanks for responding.

    Here is a version for those who cannot accept the previous V-I chord usage.
    salveReginaNoV-I.pdf
    5M
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  • 32ContraBombarde32ContraBombarde
    Posts: 131
    It's a beautiful accompaniment, Francis, and very nicely typeset!


    Since you expressed an interest in hearing from people immersed in these chants, I'll throw a few thoughts from my chant accompaniment experience and preferences. Take them or leave them as you see fit!

    I tend to prefer a slightly simpler organ part with less movement, that sits more like a cloud beneath the melody without too much counterpuntal involvement. The strength and "busyness" of my accompaniment tends to grow as the group of singers grows; so if I'm accompanying a full, boisterous congregation, the registration, voicing, and movement will all scale up to match, and help keep everyone together and moving forward. If it's an accompaniment for just one or two chanters, then I apply the old KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) principle to maintain primacy of the chant over the accompaniment, and basically stay out of the way. If the organ is a distraction, becomes the focal point, or makes it harder to chant, I've done something wrong. (Or I've just played the wrong note. But that's another story.)

    Re: V-I, I avoid it whenever possible in chant accompaniment because--at least to my ear--it quickly removes the listener from the modal vernacular to which chant belongs. Now if it's not a final cadence and the V leads to first inversion I or a vi chord, it's less jarring. But generally, I try to choose something else. Depending on the mode, cadences like IV-I or bVII-I, bVII-i, vi-i, even ii-I, etc. are less jarring options that keep the modal sense alive.

    Attached is a quick off-the-cuff recording of an accompaniment that I might use with this tone (including melody, since I'm just recording straight from the organ and not adding the vocal line). I included a couple V- I (1st inversion) and V-vi movements in the middle, since I referenced that above.

    Again, just my .02. Your accompaniment (especially the one that leaves out the V-I cadences) is quite lovely, and gave me a few new ideas to play with.
    salve.mp3
    4M
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @32ContraBombarde

    thanks for posting your improv. it is good to hear from other organists who respect the chant tradition in a way that lets the chant dictate tempo, harmonic structure, etc, without imposing too much modern theory upon thus.

    i improv'd this one yesterday at a high mass, and yes, i shall admit, my improv sounds similar and simpler than the score presented above, much the same as yours, however with less pedal point.

    one thing that i am aiming for is for the voice to be prominent in a way that the organ does not cover up the vocal melody in the least, hence why the melody is absent from my setting.

    its seems that almost all accomps for chant (including the noh) keep the melody in the topmost part. i am striving to create a weave of melodies that stay below (and away from) the chant melody, but entirely support it.

    however, the greatest secret to my more contrapuntal setting is that using the lower voices of this setting, a choral arrangement (with proper voice leading) with some harmonic interest, can be derived verbatim to be sung a cappella if desired.

    here is a quick demonstration file of the first two measures:
    choralDemo.pdf
    35K
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  • alexandermccune
    Posts: 10
    Francis, your second version changed exactly the ones I was thinking of when I said "V-I". Of course you didn't have any true V-I chords, but it seemed to me that the bass motion suggested it. Your IV-I solutions look great. I also like to make cadences in modes V and VI by getting to the tonic first and suspending the "IV-I" structure over it.

    But, I can't speak from any position of authority! Any knowledge I have for chant accompaniment is based off of Eugene Lapierre's "Gregorian Chant Accompaniment", which was given me by my pastor several years ago. Here's his chart of correct cadences according to his method.

    (Dropbox link) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gr5v2fptwixpw4/Modes & cadences (Lapierre).JPG?dl=0
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @alexandermccune

    Yes, I read the first half of the book this morning (including the pages you posted) and then made adjustments to the McCune Edition soon thereafter. :)

    Tnx again!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    btw... here is the book for anyone who is interested.

    (i got it from ccwatershed. i reduced the file size from 25meg to about 3meg.)

    (I must admit, however, I don't agree with the opening sentence about 'must be accompanied'. I have directed children's scholas that sing artistically without organ.)
    gregChantAccomp.pdf
    3M
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  • alexandermccune
    Posts: 10
    Brilliant, I didn't realize the book was available online! I also prefer a lot of chant unaccompanied. At the EF I've been with for ~6 years we sing the Propers unaccompanied, and add the organ for the Ordinary.

    I'm sure Lapierre isn't the only authority on chant accompaniment, though I find his method feels very pure. Do you know others? Maybe I'll start a new thread asking about it.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    yes, there can never be too many threads on the chant!
  • AndrewSteinerPiano
    Posts: 62
    Thanks for providing this. I used it yesterday with my choir. They liked it, mostly because it sounds like something improvised. I used the 'revised version you posted on July 2, and the V-I cadence didn't bother me, although I avoid it religiously in accompanying chant. I meant to get a recording using my phone, but I wasn't quick enough. I'll try to this next Sunday in case you haven't heard it with an actual choir yet.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @AndrewSteinerPiano

    YW.

    Yes, please send a recording. What registration are you using?
  • AndrewSteinerPiano
    Posts: 62
    I almost always use Gedeckt 8' when accompanying chant, as it's in the Swell and the choir is small. I could use Dolcan 8' (on the Great) which is soft too, but stands out a little more.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    @andrewsteinerpiano

    Perfect!
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