Two new compositions
  • Stabant juxta crucem, assigned for September 15th, as the introit.

    Circumduxit eam, assigned for the feast day of St Therese of Lisieux, and written in this setting for a Carmelite priest friend of mine.

    Both pieces are SATB.

  • Are there supposed to be links or attachments? If so, they aren't working. Please advise.
  • Andrew,

    I have the files on my desk top, and I don't know (because I'm an ignorant rube and because I haven't tried) if Finale's .mus files will either load or be easily read.

    Advice, please. I've formerly uploaded music in pdf format.

    God bless,

  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,376
    Chris, one can easily convert a Finale .mus file to a PDF, and then attach the PDF to a Forum comment:

    FILE - PRINT - PDF (at bottom left on the screen) - Save as PDF
  • I'm not sure if I can offer any tech advice; Fr. Ron Krisman's seems most relevant. I was just wondering if you knew that there were no scores attached to your original post. I know posting (or emailing) while forgetting attachments is something I do with embarrassing regularity.
  • Fr. Krisman,

    As soon as I read your comment/advice, I tried it, but my version of finale doesn't give me the choice to save as pdf. Other ideas?

  • You don't save as a PDF. You PRINT as a PDF.
  • Andrew,

    Yes. I'm sorry that I didn't explain that properly, I have used the following commands:

    crickets. No print as pdf option exists in my dialogue box. I'm missing something, obviously, but whether the missing thing is a clue or a sufficiently "up-to-date" version of Finale is still a matter for debate.'


  • You could download doPDF or a similar program, which acts as a printer on your drop down list, that creates PDFs. I think that's how I did it back when I had Finale.
  • CGZ,

    Send the .mus files to and I will PDF and send right back.
    Thanked by 2canadash RedPop4
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,690
    In the latest version one uses Export as a PDF.
  • kittykitty
    Posts: 1
    If you have it, print to MS One Note, then print as pdf and voila!
  • Here, thanks to Noel Jones' help, are the two compositions, in pdf format.

  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    The music looks pretty good .. the first text, new to me, seems terribly boring (if it's not irreligious to say so...) Mary stood there and Cleo stood there and Salome and Mary ... they stood there and ...

    The second piece, musically, has kind of a Schenkerian problem: can't decide if it's a 3 or a 5.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,439
    It doesn't just mean to "stand." It means to remain, to stand firm, or to stay. Connotations include faithfulness, steadfastness, and firm dedication.
  • Mr Copper,

    New term to me, "Schenkerian". That's nothing to do with Cal Shenk, but beyond that, I don't know what it is.

    Thank you for your comments.

    God bless,

  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Chris, it's an esoteric reference to an of dubious value of theoretical analysis formulated by Albert Shenker with help from a protege, a former comp prof of mine during MA studies, Stephen Gilbert (RIP). That's why Mr. Copper had issues, because under Shenker I came to the sad conclusion it all boiled down to V-I. So, that's the 3/5 thing, I presume.
    Shenkerian analysis is proof enough that sometimes systematic overlay of theories are retrofits, or deconstruction/reconstructional so that such geeks can get tenure. YMMV.
    I'd pay it no heed. I haven't had access to a computer to take a look yet, but I'm very much looking forward to them. We've done Chuck's, Heath's, Adam's, Royce's pieces from such postings!
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,439
    Schenkerian analysis: A system for determining whether or not a piece of music is actually "Three Blind Mice."
    Thanked by 2Heath Spriggo
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,083
    A more detailed description of Schenkerian analysis is at .

    In short, it's an approach to reading a work by identifying an underlying structure in it, so that a free composition is interpreted as an elaborated version of an underlying contrapuntal composition.
    Thanked by 2eft94530 DavidOLGC
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yes, Richard, it could be described as such. Unless one is doing Penderecki, I can't think of a solitary reason to "go there" performance wise.
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Melo, I studied with Penderecki for a year in Poland, and I don't think he ever mentioned Schenker. But I do think Schenker is relevant with regard to tonal music (as the posted music is): either your piece works its way up to the third scale step and back down, or it goes to the fifth scale step and back down. He'd say (and I think I agree) it can't or maybe shouldn't do both.

    Adam: Three Blind Mice is a 5, so no problem. There are perfectly good pieces which are threes, too, forinstance the famous "Five Blind Mice".
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    And, compare the incomparable "Stabat mater" text, if you want to think about the meaning of "Standing" ...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,439
    Adam: Three Blind Mice is a 5, so no problem. There are perfectly good pieces which are threes, too, forinstance the famous "Five Blind Mice".


    And, compare the incomparable "Stabat mater" text, if you want to think about the meaning of "Standing" ...

    Thanked by 1ryand
  • Everyone,

    I'll follow up more on this as time permits, but do I get the general feeling that Schenkerian analysis gives the Jesus Seminar entree with Music History and Theory geeks?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,083
    It seems that Schenkerian analysis is a topic taught at the graduate level of music theory.
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    It's a way of looking at music, and includes a very compact way of framing a work, even a large work, in an understandable if not trivial way.

    By my comment, I didn't mean that you should go learn some more theory, just that my initial impression of the music was that it was unclear, and that the lack of clarity had to do with your melodic line reaching A (the third) and C (the fifth) in a somewhat uncontrolled and maybe repetitious manner. It was easier to say it in shorthand as I did then than as I do now trying to be more clear ...

    It was not intended as any kind of secret code for condescension or anything.

    And, like many comments on postings, it was based on a brief look, not a careful study, so take with a grain or two of salt.
    Thanked by 1Marc Cerisier
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    For what it's worth, I had an "aha" moment in graduate school when performing Shenkerian analysis on a Chopin piano piece which I had learned many years before. It revealed to me in a very concrete way the "purpose" of the two sections of the piece...something my piano teacher at the time had explained in more subjective (but equally effective) terms. So it's not just a fad for nerds, I think.

    That said, I have not done that sort of analysis since I took that class (from the late and great Prof. Steven Strunk).

    Perhaps a parallel in chant study would be the process for determining "Greater Rhythm," as described in the Gregorian Chant Practicum and other places. It's not precisely necessary to perform the chant well, but it can be a useful tool for understanding overall form.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Melo, I studied with Penderecki for a year in Poland, and I don't think he ever mentioned Schenker.

    Thus confirming in an oblique manner my contention about its value as a tool for performance presentation. Again, YMMV.
    I do like the Chopin Conservatory in Warsaw, much moreso than that in Moscow.
  • bumping for the upcoming feast(s)
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    Is the textual underlay intentional? Parts of it seem very Elizabethan (read: unorthodox) - eg. Stabant juxta crucem, p. 2, m. 1-2 and 4, alto.

    Otherwise seems very singable.
  • Schoenbergian,

    Yes, the textual underlay is intentional. Thank you for noticing.

  • bumping: Stabant juxta crucem is proper for the Friday of Passion week.
    Thanked by 1Joseph Michael
  • Dear Chris,
    This is to inform you that next sunday - Solennité du Sacré-Coeur - we will sing your "Unus Militum" in the Collégiale Saint-André, in Grenoble (France). I assume this will be the "Première française" ! This will also be the most recent motet that our choir will have sang ! The previous was Ola Gjeilos Northern Light !
    Just for the record, what is your birth year ? (I put it on the folio distributed to the participants
    Best regards,
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Etienne,

    I was born in 1968.

    Thank you so much for letting me know about this. Could you send me a recording of the result?

  • francis
    Posts: 10,476
    very cool CGZ... congrats!
  • Alas... we dont record. I ll try to do something, but cannot assure it will be audible...
    I ll keep you informed (rehearsal tonight). Thank to you for giving us beautiful works !
  • bumping for the upcoming feast
  • bumping: Seven Sorrows of Mary is September 15
  • Bumping
  • Bumping, since September 15th is just around the corner.

    The piece here relevant for that feast is the Stabant juxta crucem.