The choir elephant in the room has entered.
  • jefe
    Posts: 192
    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak
    is the link I hope you have read. Our Bishop has forbade services of any kind 3 weeks ago and that of course includes Compline. Our Compline during Lent has disintegrated to putting out recordings of past Complines twice a week as a soothing, Virtual-hand-holding, respite. Here is one sent out this week: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo2t22foariy13p/20180318.mp3?dl=0
    All is not lost as Morning Prayer (BCP) every Wednesday AM is now on ZOOM. Our Rector does his parts of the Sunday service recorded from his office and put on our facebook page. Stations of the cross, a lonely prospect anyway, has been videotaped and is on youtube. Our organist has put some musical parts of the service on her cellphone and put it on Holy Trinity Episcopal Church's facebook page.
    This whole episode is the most far reaching that I've experienced in my years on earth.
    jefe
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 175
    Our provincial Chief Medical Officer has actually banned group singing. I didn’t realize until I was reading all the restrictions online.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,870
    breathing will be banned when it becomes too dangerous
  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 133
    I was allowed to gather six singers and record music for our Passion Sunday liturgy. We had to place singers eight feet apart. Thanking God for small blessings.
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 283
    Singing produces 6x more droplets than regular speech.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,870
    talk when you are breathing in, not out... you can't breath in and sing at same time however
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 175

    breathing will be banned when it becomes too dangerous


    My choir director banned breathing long before COVID-19.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,632
    breathing will be banned when it becomes too dangerous

    There are times when purple is superfluous.

    I'm blessed to be able to sing for Easter! My parish is having a livestreamed TLM. I asked for an organist before I knew that the strictly enforced regs in my diocese were that the maximum allowable participants in a livestreamed Mass were FOUR: The priest, a server, the technician, and a musician. So Father is doing without a server (and If this becomes a regular thing, I won't be asking for organ). We'll be doing Rheinberger Op. 62, and if Fr. okays motets to cover action that isn't happening, the Michael Haydn Stella coeli and Rheinberger Regina coeli
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen francis
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,870
    @Jeffrey Quick

    Unfortunately, I did not intend that to be purple. I hope it does not come about.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 827
    I've always said that one day they will determine that life causes cancer and to prevent it's spread will line us all up against the wall.
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 478
    Has anyone else had actual cases in their choir or parish staff? So far not here. I know of one friend whose stepmother may have the virus and is currently in the hospital being evaluated intubated! Sad to say! But no further news yet....
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,515
    We haven't had anyone diagnosed with it. If there are any virus cases, I don't know about it.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 698
    I've always said that one day they will determine that life causes cancer and to prevent it's spread will line us all up against the wall.


    That certainly fits in with the "progressive" line of reasoning. You know, it's not a tragedy if you kill someone, but it is if they die of illness.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,870
    I am developing an alternative to breathing. Device will be available for rent soon.
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • Francis


    Will we have to swear allegiance to anything before being allowed to rent the device?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,870
    CGZ

    No. But you may want to go to confession.
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • Carol
    Posts: 575
    We live about 2 hours north of NYC and 2 of our friends and a spouse have had it. These were in 2 different households. They have all recovered. The married couple cases were confirmed by testing and the other case was diagnosed by a doctor during a telemedicine visit but it was a "classic" case with high fever, fatigue, and shortness of breath. I met a nurse friend out buying pizza last week and she said the local hospital situation was unbelievable. We appear to be turning the corner, but keep your guard up!
  • Argument:

    The opening of the parish churches is essential to the curing of the present unpleasantness. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether we want them open. Since the pestilence (COVID -19, not the newsmedia or the NPM or anything else) is clearly permitted by God, it is to God that we must turn for the remedy. Not to do so is to know the cause of a blazing inferno and choose to behave as if the cause is elsewhere.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Elmar
    Posts: 238
    Has anyone else had actual cases in their choir or parish staff?
    Brother-in-law of a choir member in my parish; uncle of a singer in one of my choirs. They died at age 84 and 90, both apparently in good health until three weeks ago.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 283
    Elmar, may they rest in peace.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Elmar
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 283
    Chris – I don’t see how that argument makes any sense at all. Back when the churches were open, we had plenty pestilence to go around, from asthma to Zika. Even if we did have a jackass of a God who loved to afflict the world with diseases, we certainly haven’t seen a spike in cancer, diabetes, etc. since the churches closed.
    Thanked by 1PaxMelodious
  • Gamba,

    I didn't claim that God likes inflicting diseases on us. As to the missing spike, I haven't any numbers, pro or con.

    My point, though, is that God allows us to suffer so as to bring us to repentance, and so, since he's allowing us this special wake-up call, we really ought to take it. There's our personal sin, but there are also the grave sins of our society's mores.
    Thanked by 2francis bhcordova
  • Elmar
    Posts: 238
    God allows us to suffer so as to bring us to repentance, and so, since he's allowing us this special wake-up call, we really ought to take it. There's our personal sin, but there are also the grave sins of our society's mores.
    Couldn't be be more true - and still isn't an argument for re-opening chuches vor public masses.
    Rather: let's make use of this time to re-discover adoration, spiritual communion, LOTH (a lot of life streams popping up to join in!), lowest possible threshold for confession, ample of new opportunities to help your nearest (just six feet away), to evangelize etc. etc.
  • Elmar,

    I'm in favor of the spread of adoration and spiritual communion. I don't pray the Liturgy of the Hours because I pray the Divine Office, so I won't comment on whether LOTH is worth "rediscovering".

    I have no idea what you mean by "lowest possible threshold for confession".

    Nevertheless, PRIVATE prayers aren't the same as the public worship offered by the Church to Her Divine Spouse. The Divine Office is part of the public prayer of the Church, even when prayed privately, but it should be sung, publicly, more often than it is.

    The parish churches should never have been closed in the first place.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 79
    Certainly the praying of the psalms in the normative manner approved of by the Church is worth rediscovering; I can't imagine how this could be an appropriate moment to defecate upon LOTH in favor of the older Office. I'm as much a trad as any, but let's not use this moment to denigrate the official prayer of the Church, regardless of the version. Come on now.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • Trentonjconn,

    NOT defecating. Expressing insufficient recently knowledge base to offer an opinion.

    "I won't comment" meant exactly that.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    Fr. Thomas Joseph White OP, director of the Thomistic Institute in Rome, has written a sensible commentary on the state of things, and about the right and duty of bishops and priests to protect people from disease, even by closing access to the Mass:

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/04/epidemic-danger-and-catholic-sacraments

  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    But Christians should also be on guard against exaggerated individualism, magical thinking that ignores scientific evidence, and religiously rationalized narcissism.

    Chonak - Thank you for posting this article.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    By the way, the Dominicans at the Thomistic Institute have lectures for the current situation and retreat talks for Holy Week, so we can get some benefit from the time:
    https://thomisticinstitute.org/quarantine-lectures
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • But Christians should also be on guard against exaggerated individualism, magical thinking that ignores scientific evidence, and religiously rationalized narcissism.


    I shall read Father White's commentary after Easter, but since I take this as a quote from his opus, I can comment on it.

    I agree. I absolutely agree.

    He's quite right that Christians should be on guard against exaggerated individualism (which could be a definition of "the American way", and is typified by the national anthem of Hell, "I did it my way"), and also on guard against magical thinking that ignores scientific evidence (the Catechism speaks strongly against superstition, and several popes have spoken out against scientism, if I recall) and also guard against "religiously rationalized narcissism". This last evil is wrong on three fronts: narcissism is bad, rationalized behavior is bad (see one popular redefinition of "casuistry") and using the veneer of religion (abortion as sacred ground, for example) to defend the other two is a form of calling down God to bear witness to the veracity of a lie.

  • IdeK
    Posts: 79
    I live in eastern France, not far away from the French most important cluster in Mulhouse. We haven't had a Mass since early March. No confessions either. As my parochial church is always closed anyway, it is not opened at these times. I don't know of much cases in the parish, though there must be a lot of it : I'm a librarian at the public library of the city and at least three of my about 100 colleagues have or have had it, as well as an uncle of mine living elsewhere. No deaths at this point though, and no one even needed to go to the hospital, which is a relief.

    The great luck we in France had is that western France wasn't really struck before the lockdown, so the hospitals there are not overwhelmed, and there is a lot of solidarity, meaning transport of intubated patients from one end to the other end of France. This means things were far less horrible in here than in Italy or Spain - I here we haven't such a shortage in ventilators or medicine.

    The peak has been passed a few days ago and the epidemic is actually plateauing.
    However we're in huge shortage in masks and tests, which basically means we won't be getting out soon because the epidemic would restart -and with our ICU rooms already more than full, we can't afford it.

    I hope we have a Mass on Whitsunday, but I would not place a bet on it.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,863
    Idek

    My sister in law is just over the river in Switzerland (Aargau), she was on the call up list for nurses but is still waiting for the call, their hospitals are almost empty of cases. They even have a spare hospital ready. They had just finished and opened a replacement, but as the panic came on, they decided to keep it open. I hear they have been shipping in cases from the Alsace, and Germany, to give them something to do.

    Here in England they are now worried that our Accident and Emergency is empty... only 3 cases came in one day last week and this is a major hospital! The ambulance crews are also short of work, I was chatting to 3 sets last week.

    As for numbers, in 2018 from the beginning of January to April 10th 33,630 people died OF flu in the U.K., so far this year less than 9,000 have died WITH Covid!

    We are lucky that we do not have a proper lockdown so can go out when we like...
  • IdeK
    Posts: 79
    Yes, there has been a lot of solidarity also with Germany and Switzerland either. Some of the patients from here have been taken to Saarland, which is way nearer than Switzerland.

    We're all very grateful to all those hospitals, in western France, Switzerland and Germany, that have taken in our numerous ill people... Hadn't they, it would have been like Brescia or Bergame in here or in Alsace, and it's not, thank God.

    It's not yet getting better in here, but it seems to have stopped getting worse. I hope and pray it finally gets better...
  • Elmar
    Posts: 238
    Chris,
    I have no idea what you mean by "lowest possible threshold for confession".
    What I meant was: While in 'normal' times there is 3 to 5 times per week per church the opportunity to go to mass, there was on average just once weekly (if any) time for confession. Now as there are no public masses, there is regular confession on Sunday morning, people are reminded that they can arrange to see the priest virtually at any moment (outside, in the day chapel etc) for confession. When people are on quarantaine, they are encouraged do phone to the pastor about it.
    Not sure if confession numbers are up, but opportunity definitively is!