is there accurate/poetic translation of Es ist ein Ros
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 317
    In the original German, Mary is the rose and Christ the flow'ret/bud she brings forth - and the first two verses are mostly about her. I haven't been able to find any English translations that reflect this, they all alter the meaning to make Christ the rose - even the LOTH version! So we have a beautiful Catholic hymn in German with only Protestantised English translations, at least that I know of. Would anyone point me in the right direction? Or if there is truly nothing else, would anyone consider trying their hand at a more faithful rendering that still fits the original metre?
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,946
    You can start with the comparison table included here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es_ist_ein_Ros_entsprungen
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 317
    That's where I looked! Spaeth gets some of it right in the first verse but drifts off in the second. But no one else even tries to come close.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    Winkworth has a couple of bonus syllables, but maybe "It showed its fair bud's light"?
    Thanked by 1m_r_taylor
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 317
    That works for verse 1, thanks!

    That said, Winkworth says in verse 2

    The Rose which I am singing,
    Whereof Isaiah said,
    Is from its sweet root springing
    In Mary, purest Maid;

    Whereas Mary herself is the rose in the original German.
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 317
    Or am I misunderstanding Winkworth's second verse?
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    I think Winkworth can be read as you propose, with some sort of distinction between rose and bud. The original has seemingly straightforward language, though things get so to speak a little prickly around whether Röslein = bush that bears the other Blümelein.

    On second thought I'd be fearful of sniggering at 'bud-light' though.
    Thanked by 1m_r_taylor
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    I too suspect the original Ros is a plant rather than a flower. A "shoot" would be the biblical term.

    Kinda like saying an elm is growing in the garden, a rose has sprung from the ancient root.
    Thanked by 1m_r_taylor
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,946
    Putting aside modern grafted hybrids, roses are tap-rooted, and, even if you cut it off at the ground, or even remove the top part of the root system, there's a good chance a sprout may come from what's left in the ground, if the ground is not strongly disfavorable to roses. It's not as prodigious in this regard as dandelion or horseradish - among less welcome examples - but roses can be thornily tenacious. To understand this, try removing a longstanding one whence you don't want it.
    Thanked by 2m_r_taylor cesarfranck
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    So, Mary is the "tender stem" and the flower is "True Man yet Very God" as the 19c verse 3 would have it (Layriz was indeed Protestant). This is more consistent with Isaiah's radice and I read that Ros is a variant of Reis instead of a contraction of Rose, so maybe it was actually Catholics who started the monkeying around! The Musae Sioniae version probably has as good a claim to being the 'original'.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 317
    Fascinating!
  • petrus_simplex
    Posts: 72
    Behold a rose is blooming,
    From a most tender shoot.
    As men of old didst sing us,
    A scion of Jesse's root;
    It brings a flower bright,
    Amid the cold of winter,
    when half-gone was the night.

    The tender shoot I sing of,
    which blessed Isaiah spoke,
    is Mary, pure, unspotted,
    from whom the bud has broke.
    At God's eternal aid,
    She has born a baby,
    And stayed a virgin maid.

    This blossom small and fragrant,
    with sweetness fills the air.
    It's brightness now dispelling
    the darkness everywhere.
    True man yet God of might,
    He consoles our sadness,
    Sin and Death puts aright.
    Thanked by 5Kathy CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn cesarfranck m_r_taylor
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Isn't there another English version of this text that Howells set? The title is murky in my mind: is it "A Spotless Rose"? Or is that Otto Goldschmitt?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    Howells set two verses of Catherine Winkworth's paraphrase. There is some useful information here. And there is an article on wikipedia which gives various verses and translations, including one in the LOTH.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 139
    One should always consult the New Oxford Book of Carols for definitive information.

    That ancient paperback hymnal, Our Parish Prays and Sings had a Catholic version.
    Thanked by 1m_r_taylor
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 139
    Here is one more:

    I know a rose tree springing
    Forth from an ancient root,
    As men of old we singing,
    From Jesse came the shoot
    That bore a blossom bright
    Amid the cold of winter,
    When half spent was the night.

    This rose-tree, blossom laden,
    Whereof Isaiah spake,
    Is Mary, spotless maiden
    Who mothered, for our sake,
    The little Child, newborn,
    By God’s eternal counsel,
    On that first Christmas morn.

    O Flow’r, whose fragrance tender
    With sweetness fills the air,
    Dispel in glorious splendor
    The darkness ev’rywhere;
    True man, yet very God
    From sin and death now save us
    And share our ev’ry load.--Hymnal 1940

    And, as mentioned in an earlier post, the following.

    Behold, a Rose of Judah,
    from tender branch has sprung!
    A Rose from Root of Jesse,
    as prophets long had sung.
    It bore a flower bright,
    that blossomed in the winter
    when half spent was the night.

    2. The Rose of royal beauty
    of which Isaiah sings,
    is Mary, maiden Mother,
    and Christ the flow’r she brings.
    By God’s unique design,
    remaining still a Virgin,
    she bore her Child divine.

    3. We pray thee, Virgin Mother,
    the Queen of heav’n and earth;
    Obtain for us from Jesus
    the blessings of his birth.
    By his humility,
    May we live as God’s children,
    in peace and unity. —Irvin M. Udulutsch, Our Parish Prays and Sings, 1959

    Thanked by 1ronkrisman
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