I agree to SOME extent. Keep in mind, the Masses DO have the same propers and readings. If your music "jives" with the liturgy, why change a good thing?

And yet, why sing "When morning guilds the skies" at the 6:00 PM Saturday Mass (or the 4:30 AM Sunday)? Variation, when possible, is good. I also suggest a change-up based on other dynamics. My last parish's early Mass was rather early (for me) and a very musically conservative crowd. I rarely introduced any new hymns at that one, kept the ordinary very simple and familiar, and avoided any but the closing hymn going above a C#. And yes, adjust to the performers available too!!

I would say such a principle is IMPERATIVE at Masses which, while being of the same feast, are different texts (Christmas, Pentecost).

I also agree with at least a different level of music at each. That worked out naturally at my last church, but for example I know of a church that has 5:00 Saturday, 8, 10, 12, 4:30 Sunday. I'd say make 5 the "sandwich Mass", 8 simple propers and an offertory and closing hymn, 10 High Mass with choir, 12 occasional choir and 2-3 hymns (4:30 is already the contemporary Mass, I'd just go home and let them do whatever they want). Like Noel, I really don't get these churches which have to have every Mass EXACTLY the same.

Gavin and Frogman,

Agreed. I don't understand why the music has to be the same.

This idea (of having the same music at every Mass, was the bane of my musical life awhile back. I was the volunteer director of a choir at a Parish that sang whatever 'hymns' the Music Coordinator and her right-hand minion chose from OCP's Liturgy Guide, and it was the same situation you alluded to above: all Masses had to sing the same music. We had no input, and I hated it. I eventually told the Pastor that I was quitting unless I was allowed to choose music that was more appropriate for a choir than for a soloist singing into a microphone from the piano. This was way before I knew anything about Propers, but I knew that what we were doing didn't make sense, but I couldn't articulate any reasons beyond style, i.e., a choir cannot sing a hymn that was written for a pianist and solo singer.

At one point in this war, I was given the music selections along with a stern and much-underlined note, which read: "GREG: VERY IMPORTANT!! There are to be NO CHANGES in the monthly music menu's! (May, June, etc.) PLEASE use ONLY the MUSIC LISTED (NO SUBSTITUTIONS!)" (sic)

The first page after this (which was for the 5th Sunday of Easter) had the following selections. I think you'll get the flavor of it.

Gathering Hymn Sing a New Song (Schutte)
Preparation of the Gifts We have been Told
Communion Procession Hail Mary Gentle Woman
Communion Procession #2 On this Day, Oh Beautiful Mother
Closing Hymn May God Bless You

This was in 2004. I saved it because any time I am tempted to go anywhere near a 'typical' Parish, I read this and lose the urge immediately.

What happened? I refused to back down (that's the great thing about being a volunteer; I had nothing to lose), and eventually the Pastor prevailed on the MC to let me do my thang, but the establishment (which also included the school Principal, his wife, and the Pastoral Associate) didn't like it, and even though eventually both the MD and her minion were let go, the Parish idea of music in Liturgy formed according to the "Eagle's Wings" idea, and no one had ever been able to change it. This month marks one year since I left to direct a schola for the EF, and I'd never consider doing anything else. Someone said not too long ago on one of these threads that Music in Catholic Schools was so bad that the only way out was to have no music at all for several years. I think that may be the same case in many of these 'typical' parishes. People are so wedded to these ideas that they will leave the Church before they give up their Schutte.

It is very striking indeed. I know of several cases in which one person wrecked a parish music program, was eventually run out, but left a mess of a music program that no one was able to clean up later. So the ghost of the person hangs around for years, even decades.

If anybody says that word ever again, I'm coming to that person's house with a REALLY big stick.

Gregp,

I know that you work for an EF Mass now, but if in the future, perish the thought, you should be stuck in this kind of situation again, one solution would be for the MC and/or her right hand minion and/or the establishment direct the choir themselves if they think it is so important to have this music and see and hear for themselves how important it is to have choral music and not solo repertoire to sing in choir. Congratulations on the change in music directing appointment, and Godspeed.

The thing about having different music at each weekend Mass is that it begins to seem as if we are catering to individual likes and dislikes, and that is not what sacred liturgical music is about. I would support, however, having different music depending on the different musical resources available at each Mass (i.e. simple responses for a cantor and congregation, antiphons and motets with a mixed choir, and maybe a hymn and an accompanied Glory to God or Holy Holy when there is an organist).

Felipe,

Your logic breaks down as you list things that are immutable and then make the huge stretch to pull in something that is eminently variable, hymns (or songs..). As several posters have mentioned, variable extra-liturgical hymns should be chosen with the performing group in mind. As a chorister I detest the harmonizations of the sacro-pop literature. They are not only inelegant -- a byproduct of the composition -- but most volunteer choirs can't manage them very well. Too many 7ths (in the bass/baritone no less) and clunky voice leading. While it could be done, I would not want to schedule the same tunes for Masses that have kids choir, praise band, schola, and solo cantor at the various Masses. Let's say you have an old-style folk group. Does this mean you cannot program Victorian hymns at any Mass? I have found that amateur strummers simply can't manage the progressions, even when simplified. Now, once we rid the Church of club musicians, we can talk about uniformity. BTW a fellow DM once told me that her goal was to make the Masses so that anyone in the parish would feel comfortable musically at any of the Mass times. Nice idea, but impractical unless you have the same types of ensembles at every Mass (or similar).

frogman: "shouldn't every parish offer Masses that have an ascending level of liturgical music?"

Are you pondering things as an executive or as a minion?

What is the Church's ideal?
Is the ideal liturgy like a Play, or a Musical, or an Opera?
What is your goal?
Are you making bricks or building a Cathedral?
Until all are singing all of their texts every time,
priest/instrumentalist/chorister/soloist/parishioner texts float along detached from the others.

Yes, there should be ascending levels (i.e., progress), and in two senses.

One.
The number of texts that get a tune, and which texts before other texts.
Over time, the number increases.
There are two competing sets of implementation Principles:
Rome: 1967 Musicam Sacram/2003 General Instruction of the Roman Missal
USA: 1972 Music In Catholic Worship/1982 Liturgical Music Today/2007 Sing To The Lord
Which set of Principles are you trying to implement?

Two.
Complexity of setting (melodic range, notes per syllable, harmony).
Sacrosanctum Concilium # 117 implies this (initiating the Graduale Simplex).

Certainly there must be a basic version of sung texts that all can sing,
and be able to fall back to so that good liturgy continues if Something Really Bad happens
(music leaders missing due to illness/clock alarm failures/travel interference,
church building power loss). It might be a way of both improving and expressing unity.

Having said all this, the hardest part is accepting that wherever we are,
there is history and habit we live with, but, fertilizing and watering the weeds
while waiting for the Burpee Seed Catalog to arrive does not help.

Pes, you forgot to cue the background music for your vignette ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOK5KI96mac

Seriously, given the Four Marks of the Church, the visible expression of the One-ness
can be enhanced by the music of the Mass being consistent throughout the parish schedule.

Why would homogenious gatherings need or want to escape or ignore the value
when there are documents that encourage this for multi-cultural and international events?

Oh boy, Mia, I am going to remember your list whenI feel like complaining, and count my blessings!
Donna

Hi eft

Seriously, given the Four Marks of the Church, the visible expression of the One-ness can be enhanced by the music of the Mass being consistent throughout the parish schedule.

I'm unconvinced.

The one-ness of the Church is really achieved by Christ's real presence in it. Anything else is symbolic of this. Obviously, God does not need to perceive the symbolism. Do we? If so, when would we be able to perceive this symbolism in music? When we attend each Mass on Sunday? Doesn't seem likely, and therefore not helpful toward the goal. Maybe by looking at the bulletin, and seeing how all the Masses have the same music? It seems to me not a very strong indicator, or force for cohesion.

Why would homogenious gatherings need or want to escape or ignore the value when there are documents that encourage this for multi-cultural and international events?

That's putting the matter very negatively. I could do the same:

- Why flatten parish liturgies into sameness?
- Why establish hegemony?
- Why cement uniformity in something less than ideal when having some flexibility can allow a parish to move toward the ideal?

For me, the latter is decisive. My biggest problem with uniformity of the kind described above is that it puts parish music in lock-down. With the predominance of an OCP/GIA/NPM approach these days, this lock-down would prevent any movement toward what the Church has defined as ideal. That's the pragmatic concern.

The theological concern is that imposing a uniformity of "music selections" out of a desire to show one-ness and community is that it overestimates the importance and efficacy of "music selections" in representing these things. Particularly if you take the usual approach these days, which in my experience is anything but "unifying."

Hippies? Good people? Maybe in some sense of the word "good." I thought they were people God had punished by taking away their minds. ;-) And now, of course, also by taking away their agility and 401K's. I grew up with these folks and am in the same age group. You have to love them, although they can drive a serious church musician crazy.

Well, in some churches there are over a thousand or so families, and we would have to build those stadium looking mega churches which non-denominational churches are famous (or notorious, depending on your point of view) for building.

OTOH, with the number of priests declining, and mergers making some parishes larger, and with most priests (so it seems) already saying Sunday Mass 2-3 times, some parishes may find their buildings packed, to the point where expansion looks reasonable.

A tip: do the fundraising for your parish expansion project just before a construction slump, so that the actual building work is done during the slump and comes in under budget.

Agreed with Mary. How many square feet are in a typical large Catholic church? You can fit everyone if you just remove the pews1 (and let's not forget only about 10% of the 4000 families actually show up per weekend)

eft asks: Why would homogenious gatherings need or want to escape or ignore the value
when there are documents that encourage this for multi-cultural and international events?

Short answer:
Because people are different, 'documents' don't drive people's lives much, and nobody knows about them even if they would care.

Long answer:
We have 6 Masses per Sunday: 3 cantored, one "traditional" choir, one contemporary choir, one Life Teen youth choir. Some parishioners select Masses so they can hear/avoid certain music, some because the time fits their schedule. Seating 1800, the church has maxed out the available space. (For C&E Catholics we also use the hall, seating another 600, with a total of 14 Masses.)

At last count there were slightly over 14,000 (fourteen thousand) families registered with the parish and the priest (yes, singular, and at age 53 the 4th youngest priest in the diocese) spends a lot of his time simply coordinating visiting/retired priests to say Masses and trying to minister to individuals in trouble. The last thing he needs is parish upheaval over music. And given that his undergraduate degree was in vocal music, he is not ignorant of things.

Our saving grace -- tho some here might say our curse -- is a DM who is open to many things. She's an accomplished organist comfortable with Bach and Buxtahude but receptive to Haugen, Haas and Gather which have, whether we like it or not, gone a long way to maintaining any music in Catholic churches at all over the past quarter century. She strives for quality in whichever music is sung, and fully comprehends the fact that we are not the entertainment section but, rather, a part of the liturgy.

Recruiting for the trad choir is tough given its average age only slightly below 60. This is skewed by a few 80/90-year-olds, but there is only one member under 30, the 22-year-old son of a bass who joins us when he is home from college. But even given that average, only a handful have actually sung a Latin Mass. I believe I'm the only one who has ever sung any Latin propers. Well, except for the two former nuns but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

So the reality we face is that it's an extraordinary uphill battle to keep this church on the rails at all. Change of any sort, even at one parish, takes a lot of time. Perhaps longer than some of us have. Which is why thinking in the long term is the only thing that provides hope.

Remember ye good olde indulgences days? Prayers for a 500 year indulgence? If the sins we commit as individuals can tally up 500 years or more to erase, the sins we commit in communion with one another are certainly good for a significantly longer time!