Ave Regina Caelorum
  • Recently had the pleasure of recording this motet in Prague! Several years ago, a number of colleagues here were sceptical that all the intonation planning I was doing was feasible or desirable. Happy to report that all worked well! The link is to a choral score synchronized to the recording.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZclgbH7qTI8
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 280
    (just curious) Where in Prague was the recording made?
  • It was a little church called "Modlitebna" ..
    (edit .. see below ... Korunni 60 ..)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Charming!
    (Although I struggle with "kaelorum".)

    Sung very well and the piece is very interesting! A little masterpiece in fact. I'd never heard of it before. Thanks for sharing.
    Thanked by 1mrcopper
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 280
    It was a little church called "Modlitebna" ..


    "modlitebna" (~ prayer hall) is a general word used in our language for any (non-Catholic) congregation room which doesn't have the form of a church. (Some of them even look like churches, but the owning denominations still prefer not to call them church.)

    So I've still no idea where the recording was made, but I will look for a modlitebna which is particularly small.
  • This is quite an excellent recording. It does use real singers, correct? I notice you have invented (or found) a computer program that seemingly "reads" the notes from a Sibelius score and then creates a sonic rendering that sounds like an actual choir:

    https://intonalist.wordpress.com/2014/01/31/mozart-ave-verum-example-3/

    The result of this machine is truly splendid !
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Igneus the recording was made in the "prayer hall" on Korunni at #60. From what the producer told me, it was at one time used as a recording studio for Czech radio, but is now mostly used as a church (no idea what denomination). The chorus is the Kühn Choir of Prague, and yes they're very good!
    Thanked by 1igneus
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Dixit_Dominus_44
    I notice you have invented (or found) a computer program that seemingly "reads" the notes from a Sibelius score and then creates a sonic rendering that sounds like an actual choir:


    It's not so easy as that sounds, by any means! But yes, I used synthesized choir sounds to make approximations of choral works. They get across the pitch, rhythm, and dynamics but can be frustrating in a kind of plodding regularity and vowel and consonant obscurity.

    To be clear, the recording in this post is real singers, however!
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    ServiamScores

    Thanks! I may back away from "Caelorum" and go with "Coelorum". Presently a footnote offers both pronunciations as optional. It seems that one of them is 'classical' Latin and the other the Latin of around the time of the original antiphon text. This potentially inaccurate summary is not based on anything deeper than internet browing, however!
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    I hope I may renew this thread, since it looks as though the work is finally to be released as a part of a CD and for digital distribution. Here are the pdf scores and an mp3 of it.

    There are kind words about it in the cover material:

    William Copper ...'s Ave Regina Caelorum, a beautiful example of compositional craftsmanship. Quite a unique take on what could be called a bel canto choral work, it dazzles with impeccable structure and intonation.


    The original, beginning in D, has a thornier key signature toward the middle; there's also a version down a step, beginning in C, which is easier to read. The recording is the D version.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,004
    The "hard C" on cœlorum is simply out of keeping with the remainder of the dialect, unfortunately. Unless the choir wishes to standardize on classical Latin in an ecclesiastical context for some reason, it should be soft.

    What is the purpose of the microtonal notation? It neither seemed especially "core" to the piece nor overly respected by the singers.
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    The special notation keeps everything perfectly singable. The intonation of the choir is pretty good, really -- whether they needed the indications might be argued, but they acknowledged them and sang with them on the page. The whole piece shifts in tuning as it moves harmonically -- if you heard the piano restating some pitches inappropriately, as I did during the recording, you might change your mind! All the markings are 'comma based', related to just intonation. Some people use similar symbols for quarter tones, but that's not my practice.
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,004
    I honestly just see it as extraneous then. If all you want is just intonation, that's the domain of singers properly tuning and the director enforcing good tuning. Using standard microtonal notation is just going to confuse people.