Mass for October 10 2019 antiphons
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    Does anyone have access to an English altar missal, who could send me the text of the Introit, Offertory and Communion antiphons (in the approved English) for October 10, 2019? The sites like the USCCB have the readings, but not the antiphons. Is there a good online source for these I am missing?

    Thank you!!!!

  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    October 10 is Thursday in the Twenty-Seventh Week of Ordinary Time (if I'm not mistaken; living in the Netherlands). This means that the chants are taken from the Twenty-Seventh Sunday of Ordinary Time:

    Entrance Chant
    Within your will, O Lord, all things are established, and there is none that can resist your will. For you have made all things, the heaven and the earth, and all that is held within the circle of heaven; you are the Lord of all.

    Offertory Chant (approved translation taken from Lumen Christi Missal)
    In that land there was a man named Job; blameless, upright, and God-fearing.
    Satan sought to tempt him, and the Lord gave him power over his possessions and his body.
    Ans so he destroyed all of Job's possessions and his children; and indeed, he ravaged his flesh with grievous sores.

    Communion Chant
    The Lord is good to those who hope in him, to the soul that seeks him.

    or:

    Though many, we are one bread, one body,
    for we all partake of the one Bread and one Chalice.

    or (approved translation taken from Lumen Christi Missal):

    My soul yearns for your salvation, and I hope in your word. When will you bring judgment upon those who persecute me? The wicked are persecuting me; help me, O Lord my God.
    Thanked by 1CatherineS
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,370
    There is a Processional published in England, available for download. Go here click on Search and search for processional. The Introit and Communion are the same (for us) as the 27th Sunday, so presumably the Offertory is as well, so numbers 416, 417 and 418. (We also have an optional Memorial, St Paulinus of York, which is presumably not of interest to you).
    Universalis is an invaluable online source, but does not give Offertories, if you make a one-off payment you can look ahead more than a week.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,370
    I see our sources do not agree on the Offertory, the Processional (by Society of St Gregory) takes it from the Gradual and Karl Ott's Offertoriale psalm verses (downloadable from CMAA).
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    I don't know how the Processional got this other Offertory for this particular Sunday. The Graduale Romanum has Vir erat in terra.

    The Offertory Lauda, anima mea (Praise the Lord, my soul), is scheduled for the Third Sunday of Easter.
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    I never realized they stay the same all week! Yes, it's the 27th week of "ordinary time".
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,370
    smvanroode - you are quite right, strange, seems the Processional is not infallible.
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    Why are there three very different Communion antiphons to use?
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    There is the Graduale Romanum with a Gregorian chant antiphon (the last one I mentioned). For Ordinary Time the Roman Missal always provides two antiphons (one from the Psalms and another from the New Testament), which tend to differ from the one in the Graduale Romanum. Hence, three different options to choose from.
    Thanked by 1CatherineS
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,370
    Catherine - 1/ In Tempus per Annum the GR texts mostly stay the same, but there are exceptions from day to day. (Plus of course feasts that have their own). There is a lot more day to day change in Advent, Lent, and Easter.
    2/ The revisers wanted to widen the range of scriptural texts, but not remove the ancient sung texts. So the third Communion is from the GR, the other two were put in the Missal for when the antiphon is not sung - BUT while they did not want neoGregorian settings for their new scriptural snippets in Latin, they did want to encourage vernacular settings for them.
    Thanked by 1CatherineS
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,156
    On such a weekday the novus ordo doesn't propose a proper introit, offertory, and communion antiphonal for each Mass. You can use all the above options or almost anything else. See GIRM 367 and 48.

    The long custom of resuming on weekdays the propers from the previous Sunday was kept only in one place: as a suggestion for the oration (GIRM 363).

    The Offertory antiphon does not appear in the Missal at all, because the priest doesn't say or sing it.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,370
    I would say that antiphons are proposed but not imposed. thus IGMR 48.*:
    Adhiberi potest sive antiphona cum suo psalmo in Graduali romano vel in Graduali simplici exstans, sive alius cantus, ... approbatus.
    Si ad introitum non habetur cantus, antiphona in Missali proposita recitatur ...
    In GR the heading is Tempus per Annum. Hebdomada vigesima septima, "Time throughout the year. The twenty-seventh week", there is no specific entry for Dominica, unlike the Easter 7, for example.
    *NB the US GIRM 48. is NOT a direct translation.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    The Praenotanda of the Ordo cantus missae has:

    "For weekdays the chants of the previous Sunday are used again, both with the readings assigned to each day of the special seasons – Advent, Lent, and Easter – and with the first reading for Ordinary Time, in its two-year cycle (I and II).
    Chants closely related to the readings should, of course, be appropriately transferred for use with these readings." (#19)

    In the Ordo cantus missae, the necessary changes are already indicated, and are subsequently taken care of in the current Graduale Romanum.
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    Now it's making more sense. Thank you!
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,156
    Fair enough, proposed not imposed. They are proposed in the Missal for when reading, and in the Ordo cantus missæ and Graduale Romanum when chanting Gregorian Latin. But as the Missal makes clear, if not singing Gregorian Latin, any other suitable song (alias cantus approbatus) in any suitable language, may be chosen.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    I think my confusion comes from the fact that I chant the propers at Mass on Sundays, EF, where the propers are what I spend all week studying. The ordinary is the easy part. The propers for Sunday are often quite difficult and unusual and only come around once a year and thus from my perspective as a schola member Sunday Mass is prayer and ritual structured around the chants.

    In contrast, I mostly assist at the OF on weekdays, where there is usually no music, and if there is someone providing music it is a few simple hymns, not the liturgical chant. It may well be that for people in the pews at the EF the propers are not such a feature of attention, because they aren't practicing them for hours and it's just 'background music' or 'nice singing' (hopefully). And that for the priest in the OF, the proper antiphons are notable because he prays them, but they are not in the material the congregation uses, and aren't sung, so they pass by with little notice.

    (My original question, though, was for other reasons: choosing a psalm text to teach; I've gone on a tangent now.)

    There is a marching band down the road playing a nonstop mix of marching band songs (like "When the Saints go Marching in") for several hours now. I don't know what the occasion is. I may have to shut the windows lest I go mad.
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