Yes, congratulation to the parish, the school, and the Ordinariate! This is happy news.

I happen to know the organist/choir director there and have been following this story from its inception. It is the resolution the parish and Ordinariate have been seeking. Deo gratias.

.....

The Church of the Atonement is not nor has been our nor anyone's cathedral. For some years it opted not to be a part of the Ordinariate, but preferred, strangely, to remain a diocesan church of Anglican Use in the Diocese of San Antonio. That changed several years ago when HF Francis decreed that all Anglican Use or Pastoral Provision parishes would be transferred to the Ordinariate. It is now a parish of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter, of which the Church of Our Lady of Walsingham is the cathedral.

Caleferink - YES! and YES!

Anyone in the know about what recently happened at St. Bede's, where a priest was excommunicated by Bishop Lopes? It's hard to understand the news when the only extant source is Church Militant.

“Anyone in the know about what recently happened at St. Bede's, where a priest was excommunicated by Bishop Lopes?”

I actually happen to live in the territorial Roman Rite parish that hosted them. The long story short is that their former pastor made some disparaging remarks about the Holy Father during a homily on CTK Sunday last year (and posted it on the internet, doh...). Bishop Lopes caught wind and suspended him, and gave him 60 days to publicly recant his homily or face excommunication, which considering he hasn’t returned I assume he chose the latter.

I’ve sat through several of his homilies before and I’m honestly not too surprised he crossed a line, he’d be right at home with the FSSP guys across the river. I know he also belonged to several different denominations before joining the Ordinariate (he grew up in the Plymouth Brethren), so his problems with authority should be viewed in that light.

Msgr. Jeff Steenson briefly became administrator of the parish (he’s lived up here for quite a while and taught in our seminary before being appointed the first Ordinary, VERY nice gentleman). He was only there until May and the parish has been suspended ever since.

Honestly, this whole controversy didn’t make much news in the broader Roman Rite up here. I was only tipped off when I went to one of their masses this past Spring and their old pastor wasn’t there, and I didn’t get the whole story until my parochial vicar told me a few months later. The whole thing was very hush hush but I’m sad to see St. Bede’s close (hopefully for now); they were a nice community and their masses were obviously wonderful. I know the Ordinariate community continues to meet, albeit without sacraments, and they’re trying to restart the parish, though that’ll be heavily dependent on their ability to get a new pastor (which is likely a big if). In the meantime they’ll have plenty of good options to choose from, there are several fairly traditional OF parishes in the west suburbs of Minneapolis (including their former host) as well as two SP EF parishes in the inner cities. Definitely keep them in your prayers during what is hopefully a transition.

I’ve sat through several of his homilies before and I’m honestly not too surprised he crossed a line, he’d be right at home with the FSSP guys across the river.

Pfreese, for the life of me I'm not too certain what is meant by this quotation. I work for the "FSSP guys across the river" (in Minneapolis) and I can't guess if you think we cross the line often or what. This is not at all my experience here...

...will not tell...

Ha! Perhaps Francis thinks so highly of the Ordinariate that he is at a loss for words to express his admiration. Or else he dislikes the Ordinariate so much that he is at a loss for words to express his disdain. Or, perhaps he is utterly ambivalent and is at a loss for words...

Well, I'll say what I think about it. It is, minus the Old Church English and a few other Anglicanisms, what Catholic worship in the Anglophone world should and would closely have resembled IF what Vatican II actually said actually had been heeded. This is not said out of any Anglican chauvinism, but out of common sense and a sense for natural evolution rather than the revolutionary reign of terror that we got (and still have). It seems so obvious - but for the Prayer Book English our worship is everything that the council actually called for - and is absent all the baggage that it didn't call for.

The Church of the Atonement is not nor has been our nor anyone's cathedral. For some years it opted not to be a part of the Ordinariate, but preferred, strangely, to remain a diocesan church of Anglican Use in the Diocese of San Antonio.

Our first application (I was there before going to OLW in 2018) was shortly after the ordinariate was formed in 2012. Archbishop Garcia-Siller declined it first, then our pastor withdrew the application. From what I was told, the archbishop told us we could make application later (some of the issues at the time included the ordinariate not being set up to handle a parish school).

We made application again in the fall of 2016, according to sources close to the rectory. Then there was a "pastoral visit" from the archbishop - as I am not in close contact with the rectory and administration of OLOA, I was only informed later that the purpose of the visit was for the dismissal of our then pastor. We did not prefer to be in the archdiocese - far from it, both my pastor as well as myself were very excited about Pope Benedict XVI's decree "Anglicanorum Coetibus". At the time of the parish transfer in 2017 I was discerning between staying with my parish and transferring from the Latin Church to the Byzantines. Our archbishop's strange behavior led me to make a decision quickly that as I no longer worshipped regularly in archdiocesan parishes (OLOA was formally transferred to the ordinariate in March 2017), then it made no sense for me to remain under his jurisdiction. Accepting the three month offer (between March to the end of June 2017 - I applied to be added to the apposite register very close to the deadline after hearing my priest at the Byzantine chapel, a biritual Dominican, say some very disturbing things about the archbishop) for any Latin Catholic, including those not regularly eligible for formal membership in the ordinariate, to become such was the quicker of the two decisions - that is, be added to the Apposite Register of Ordinariate Members vs. petitioning for a transfer from the Latin Church to the Ruthenian Byzantines, though in retrospect, I am now convinced that Our Lady has chosen where she wants me to be (when I was accepted on the apposite register, I naturally spent more and more time with OLOA rather than the Byzantines - it was a natural transition, not a forced one at all, which is why I am convinced that this was our Lady's desire all along for my life.

If, as it would seem, our esteemed Stimson just above here is implying that Ordinariate liturgy and the directives of the recent council are at odds, I fail to see in what way. The very existence of the Ordinariate is a fulfillment of the council's views on oecumensism.

To address the points put forward above, the following is offered -
1, Forms already existing - liturgically, the Anglican Use draws heavily from Sarum usage, Eastern usages, and from various Latin usages from before and after Trent - not to mention a number of the historical Books of Common Prayer, which themselves are derived from Western usages. Musically, the Ordinariates' usage is without peer in its impeccable repertory of the Church's historic and modern works, for choirs and for congregations.
2. Gregorian chant thrives in the Ordinariate. Every mass is often peppered with it, both in Latin and in English.
3.The ancient and uninterrupted use of Latin thrives in the Ordinariate, far more so than is to be the case in all but a relative very few strictly Roman rite parishes and cathedrals. Walsingham's well attended 8.00am mass, for instance, is celebrated with Gregorian ordinaries in Latin, and with Latin Gregorian propers from Graduale Romanum. Relatively few strictly Roman rite churches could say the same of themselves.

To be repetitive, our liturgy is everything that the recent council called for, and is absent all the baggage that it didn't call for. We are not perfect, though. Alas, one will look in vain for riddle curtains about our altars, nor will one find appareled albs and amices in our sanctuaries - but one will, unfortunately, find that a degree of that decadent and prissy Roman and un-Anglican lace creeps now and then into our sanctuaries. We do, admittedly, have some way to go.

(I hope, honourable Stimson, that this contributes to the satisfaction of your 'genuine curiosity'.)

The very existence of the Ordinariate is a fulfillment of the council's views on oecumensism.

Bingo

Bingo

Now that's a Catholic expression, eh? :-)

I did some checking, and even a few items I thought were unique to Sarum are not.

So I guess the only conclusion we can arrive at is that the Anglican Use liturgy does not use any elements that are Sarum. At least not in any serious way.

{ Reminder: Items common to (and shared amongst) a whole bunch of rites and uses don't count. }

After all, the Sarum Rite would have been entirely in Latin when it was in use.

Yes, and you can see this online when you do a Google search.

I would love to know how this fake rumor got started that the Anglican Use is somehow based on the Sarum, in any meaningful way.

--

I read on a blog: (https://sarumuse.wordpress.com/)

Bishop Peter Elliott, an Australian Roman Catholic prelate and former Anglican, encouraged hopes that Sarum would at least be an option in the yet future Ordinariates.

Also:

In a discussion with a friend about Msgr. Stephen Lopes’ excellent talk on developing an agreed upon liturgy for the Anglican Use Ordinariates, my friend noted that of all the sources mentioned in the talk, Sarum was omitted. This is a particular drum I banged for years. It is not going to happen, as so few are interested in Sarum. The English Ordinariate is Novus Ordo with a few Anglican trimmings, with some parishes using the BDW. I don’t know about Aussie, but the Ordinariate in the US would be more for the Anglican Use as it stands with a few improvements and corrections.

Some things said here are confusing to me. In my recollection, and I have an old Sarum Missal in Latin, I see very little similarities between it and the 1962 Missal Canon. The rubrics, actions, decorations, among other things are significantly more elaborate and involved. To my way of thinking, I think the 1962 Mass is boring. Also, I prefer the Sarum melodies and the Opus Anglicanum needlework. Since I was once a music director at an Anglican Use church and I know also the 1962 Missal and the Sarum Rite well, I can say, yes I do see some similarities but many differences too. One has only to study these masses on youtube to evaluate. One huge difference I know well is that in the Sarum Rite the usage of a large number of Sequences is unique to the Sarum Rite. Am I missing something?

I do think that the Collect for Purity is from the Sarum Missal. But other than that, I think it's right that the BDW isn't particularly "Sarum."

the Anglican Use draws heavily from Sarum usage

So … perhaps a few collects? Anything else? A few collects are certainly inconsequential.

From these responses, it would appear the Anglican Ordinariate liturgy has virtually nothing to do with the Sarum use.

The only thing anyone has been able to point to so far is the possibility of a Collect here and there, which may possibly have been unique to Sarum; certainly a very insignificant thing when we're speaking of liturgy.

(I would be interested to know what the Yellow Boxes mean, by the way.)

@Dixit_Dominus_44

We were asked to sing at the First Mass of an Ordinariate priest (ex Anglican). His community had been using the 'English Missal' and he believed that he could continue using it as a Catholic priest. We had been told we could sing the Propers and Ordinary in Latin, so I brought along the Sarum Chants for that Sunday. They of course did not match because the English Missal is based on the Missal codified by St. Pius V.

As for how much of the modern Ordinariate Liturgy is based on the Sarum books, a read of Fr. Hunwicke... http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/

@a_f_hawkins

Further, the influence of Sarum is filtered through the Book of Common Prayer. Cranmer certainly based BCP on Sarum

The earliest versions of the BCP have influences from Sarum, but the later filters removed all but a few things. It should be remembered that while the Sarum Use was an English Use it was also a version of the Roman Rite, it being said in Latin was a major component.

with three goals in mind 1/ the vernacular and the involvement of the congregation

Really? do you have evidence of this? The vernacular I suspect was a way of changing the meaning of various texts in a subtile way that would escape notice or all but the observant.

2/ removing anything repugnant to protestants,

I think they were burning protestants for heresy at the same time they were executing Catholics for Treason. They removed things that were inconvenient to despotic and adulterous kings and despotic and sadistic queens (Bloody Bess). The removal or deletion of the Office and Mass of St. Thomas of Canterbury from the older books is an interesting example.

Cranmer's overriding desire was for the tranquility of the realm)

I think his overwhelming desire was not to follow in the footsteps of St. John Fisher, St. Thomas More or even Card. Wolsey and Thomas Cromwell, so keeping the above despotic monarchs happy was his primary objective, and after so much effort he did not succeed! He would have made an ideal member of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales c. 1970-2000.

As to less solemn versions of the Sarum Use, as far as I can tell we know very little.

'language understanded of the people' is not, I think, just a cover.

That is assuming that everyone spoke English... Wiki At least one author suggests that a part of the uprising was the enforced new liturgy in a language not understood by the people.

I do wonder how many people in England c. 1549...
a. Spoke English (The English of the BCP)
b. Could read English
c. Could read and write in English and not understand Latin.

This idea of an elite wanting to produce a novelty 'purely' to aid the understanding of a vague majority, sounds familiar.
It could be true history repeats itself.