Abide with me
  • henrik.hank
    Posts: 103
    In what key do you like yo sing Abide with me?
    I know ut is often sung in the key of Eb but I would like to know what key you find most comfortable and what voice type you are. I know that in chorale SATB I have to sing much higher but I am refering to when we are using this tune at eg Compline ie instead of Te lucis.
    I think the key of E works very well for me.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    1) I usually use E-flat.

    2) I only recently saw it published in D in GIA's Oramos Cantando
  • cesarfranck
    Posts: 158
    E flat.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    D, bass (feeble)
  • henrik.hank
    Posts: 103
    Do both you tenors and Baritone sing it in Eb?
    I thoyght tou prefered different keys.
    I know a person who is a low female voice. All know is that she was told in school many years ago that she was an alto. Maybe she is a low mezzo-soprano. What keys works best for such a woman? When I sing in my higher range she sings with me in the same octave. I guess I would have to sing this tune in G or F# when singinh with her.
    How do we find good keys fot low female voices.
    How would we classify such a woman? What is her voice type?
  • davido
    Posts: 873
    B-flat to E-flat (octave and 5th) is the commonly accepted congregational range. If a cantor can’t negotiate that, they have not been properly trained.
    All voice parts can negotiate that range. (True basses will have trouble with d-eflat, but they are exceedingly rare.) if a voice can’t negotiate that, they probably have significant vocal issues and should study privately before singing publicly.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor CHGiffen
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    @davido : cantors trained!. I have lived in three dioceses (all Metropolitan archdioceses), they may have days or weekends available sometimes, and send parishes posters to advertise them, but I have never seen a hint that cantors should be trained except in official Roman documents. Maybe England is particularly lax.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • davido
    Posts: 873
    Well, we can all dream!...
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    EVENTIDE has an unusually small range of only a major sixth. With that in mind, and assuming unison singing, I see no reason to deviate from E-flat. The harmony in HAAM presents no issues for reasonable SATB singers, either.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    @davido : cantors trained!.


    Unfortunately, it has become a matter of cantors showing up. They are not beating down the door to be cantors and availability becomes more important than training. I know of no training programs in my region.
  • henrik.hank
    Posts: 103
    Are you really sure the low women like the key of Eb?
    What I just cant understand is how you think both tenors and baritones want to sing it in Eb. For singing at church we, the tenors, must sing lower than what is comfortable I would say (unless singing in the choir).
    I cant imagine baritones and tenors both choosing Eb when singing alone. This has not been my experience. I just dont get it. Wouldnt the key of C or C# be better suited for a baritone?
    I was taught that baritones tend to enjoy singing a third below the tenor voice.
    I was just thinking about this: in Gregorian chant the recitation tone is A in many cases. Do Baritones really like to sing the recitation tone that high? It sounds a bit too high. Why the high recitation tone?
    This means that a tenor should use C or C# as a recitation tone.

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    That hymn isn't even in the Catholic hymnals we use. If I wanted to use it, I would have to raid it from a Protestant hymnal which has it in E flat. Fortunately, the mighty Schantz has a transposer so I could play it in theoretical xyz-sharped 5th if I wanted.

    The only time I ever played that hymn in a Catholic church was for a departing associate pastor who happened to like it. I have wondered why it is not better known in Catholic circles.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Are you really sure the low women like the key of Eb?

    Good grief! The alto part ranges, in the key of E-flat, from middle C all the way up a perfect fourth to F ... what is wrong with that?

    And the soprano part roams from E-flat all the way up to (heaven forbid!) the C above middle C. Hence, for unison singing, "Low women" should be able to negotiate that, just as :"low men" should be able to negotiate the melody down a octave, as it only ascends up to a middle C.

    The tenor part ranges a whole octave(!) from E-flat below to E-flat above middle C. Even in the key of D it should be negotiable with ease by any tenor.

    The bass part has the widest range of all (which doesn't surprise me), a minor ninth, G to A-flat, considered comfortable for all basses and most baritones.


    Thanked by 4CharlesW Incardination Liam cesarfranck
  • henrik.hank
    Posts: 103
    Well, actually the low women do sing much lower than middle C. Even down to F3 or even lower.
    I have sung with an alto who sang in the same octave as me. I guess you are saying that Eb3 shouldnt be a too low pitch for the low women.
    This woman I am thinking of has a very low singing voice it seems. She sang a lullaby for me and had problems with F#4. I guess she could sing a bit higher if she used more power. She had a problem.singing a hymn with the range C#-C#.
    Maybe she could sinh up to C5 in Abide with me but it would be a bit too unatyral I think.
    I am talking about a woman who are not a trained singer.
    In SATB we often divide women voice into two groups but three in opera. This applies to men as well.
    It seems you guys think all people want to sing it in the key of Eb and that all low women are mezzo-sopranos. Some are contraltos you know.



  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Some are contraltos you know.


    Ours are contrary altos. ;-)
    Thanked by 4Incardination CHGiffen tomjaw mmeladirectress
  • henrik.hank
    Posts: 103
    "B-flat to E-flat (octave and 5th) is the commonly accepted congregational range."
    Who chose this? I am just curious because singing silent night in Bb is too low for me. True tenors like myself could really find Bb2 not an eady tone to sing. Who came up with thsy range? It certainly wont for my voice.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    Because true tenors are much less common among male voices in this part of the world than baritones. Congregational songs are normally pitched for the most common voices: mezzos and baritones.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    "B-flat to E-flat" is an octave and a perfect fourth (not a fifth).
  • davido
    Posts: 873
    Ah yes, thanks Chuck
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