"The Relentless March of the Liturgy"
  • The fellow who coined that wonderful phrase was DM at a completely "OF" parish, who had just recently been told that he was to support sung TLM on a regular basis, starting almost immediately. When I met him, he was about four months in, and it was all uphill.
    Have not heard from him for some years now, but I think about him now and then. By now that 'relentless march' has become to him what it should be, fluid and ongoing change like the changing of the seasons of the year in nature.

    Am wondering, are there people on this forum who received a similar mandate?
    And if so, how did you go about organizing your task?
    Any experiences you'd like to share will be helpful to other readers, now and in future. Thanks!
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I was told Latin was banned from our Diocese
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    In many places you could be told to get rid of chant and Latin and not use either of them again. I am fortunate in that no one says much. If I use Latin or chant, no one complains. If I use traditional hymns they are fine with that, too.
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • rollingrj
    Posts: 344
    My priest banned me from singing any of the Propers in 2015 because "the people don't understand them". What he meant by that is unclear--either the "important people" didn't want to hear the Latin or that no one knew why I was doing it. I never received any complaints (although one time while I was singing an Introit before Mass an usher got in my ear and "ordered" me to stop before I was done--I fininshed it) and only had one request for a translation.

    I just find it a touch ironic that any of the required Sequences (in Latin) are allowed (tolerated?). This priest also uses "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Tantum Ergo Sacramentum" during Eucharistic Adoration, and knows "Salve Regina". Granted, we all have our inconsistencies and don't realize them many times. I just wonder if he does.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    In the OF I think the celebrant has the right to choose from the available options, incuding rejecting any Latin. I am confident that the diocese does not have the right to ban Latin - GIRM #48 : " ... the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum as set to music there ..."
  • Allowing as how an oecumenical council (Vatican II), the highest authority in the Church, above which is no greater authority other than the pope, has commanded that Latin be preserved and that the people should know their parts of the mass in Latin, there does not exist authority for anyone or any entity to 'ban' it. Authority for that simply does not exist. There may be raw self-willed power to impede or disallow it, but doing so is to exceed one's lawful authority, to be willfully disobedient, the act of a renegade, inherently unlawful and tyrannical - and, it is certainly not 'Vatican II'.... in 'spirit' or not.
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 393
    At what point in the Mass would you use Marian hymnody during the month of May?
  • We schedule Mass IX on Mothers' Day :-)
    and schedule Marian hymns before Mass (May crowning), or as processional, motetti and the 4 seasonal Marian anthems all year - at Offertory, during distribution of Holy Communion (e.g. Stabat Mater on 1st Passion Sunday), as recessionals (which are mostly organ solos, but there are some lovely Magnificats out there).
    Not just in May. And no scruples about it.
    was it St. Bernadette? who was asked, who do you love more, Jesus or Mary? The saint looked puzzled, and said, but they are inseparable.
    After all, without the Virgin Mary, we would not have the God-made-man; without Him, we would not have her (He gave her to us from the Cross).
  • Something similar to Mme above from my perspective - not just with Marian devotion, but with the devotion of St. Joseph, the Trinity, the Sacred Heart, the Holy Name, the Holy Ghost, etc.. Why limit motets or hymns or chants that are devotional to one single feast if we are called to that devotion throughout? There may be more Marian in May, but not to the exclusion of the remainder of the year; more Sacred Heart in June, but not to the detriment of the season as a whole.

    Clearly I don't do something for Advent in Eastertide... but something for Holy Name (for example) throughout the year with no problems whatsoever.

    As for placement at Mass, as Mme suggests above - before, during, and after. :) Again, I'll typically have at least 1-2 Eucharistic pieces at Communion, but that doesn't prevent me from having Marian / Sacred Heart / etc., during Communion as well.

    Our Easter III / Mother's Day schedule this year:
    ** Ave Virgo Sanctissima (Guerrero)
    ** Daily, Daily Sing to Mary as processional
    ** Vidi Aquam

    ** Mass I with Medium Propers (PT the Alleluia verses)
    ** Ave Maris (Victoria) for Offertory
    ** Ego Sum (Esquivel) Comm 1
    ** Surrexit Dominus (Handl) Comm 2
    ** Regina Coeli (Cottone) Comm 3
    ** Regina Coeli Iubila (Anon) Comm 4
    ** O Salutaris (Duguet) Comm 5

    ** May Crowning program
    ** Who is She Ascends So High as recessional
    ** Organ postlude

    No apologies for the Assumption hymn in May! Any more than I would apologize for using Ave Maris, the Regina Coeli, or the Ave Virgo which each celebrate different aspects of Marian devotion.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    This priest also uses "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Tantum Ergo Sacramentum" during Eucharistic Adoration,

    It comes to mind that the vernacular has never been permitted for these hymns at Benediction. Of course, I could be wrong?
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    This past weekend, I directed a choir at an EF Easter Saturday liturgy, followed by singing with a friend for Orthodox Midnight Divine Liturgy for Easter, followed after about four hours of sleep by singing at my regular "parish" for Hunchback Sunday. My Orthodox friend noted that this means three liturgies in the space of 24 hours. I told him in some circles that qualifies as "clinically insane".

    But - am I the only person who loves this sort of thing? Back-to-back liturgies? In my earlier years, one of my guilty pleasures (before French Romanticism) was old monster B-movies; the cheesier the better. I would watch them, read reviews on them, everything. Unfortunately, most of these reviewers tend towards the liberal humanist side* and looked down on the more religious aspects of these types of movies. I remember reading one review of Boris Karloff's early thriller The Ghoul, where it mentions how all of Boris's conventionally Christian relatives are aghast that he tried to prolong his life through using an ancient Egyptian crystal. The reviewer quipped that Karloff probably didn't look forward to an eternity of being in church. --- and this is where I realized I'm weird, because I thought to myself, "that really wouldn't be that bad at all. Singing beautiful music, hearing the Gospel, reflecting on God's glory, being with all my friends - why would anyone think that would suck?"

    So yeah - please tell me I'm not the only one who isn't frightened by a 'relentless march' of the liturgy. Dr. Denis McNamara said at the 2014 Colloquium that the church is designed to represent the Apocalypse - the "Living End" of the World. Isn't that the sort of End we should all be living for?

    *although there were a few good ones, like Kenneth Begg at Jabootu.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    It comes to mind that the vernacular has never been permitted for these hymns at Benediction. Of course, I could be wrong?

    The vernacular's permitted, but congregations prefer the Latin texts.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    We have both vernacular and the Latin printed side by side in the booklet. From time to time we have used both languages. I know of no requirements specifying one over the other.

    I like those old movies as well. One of my favorites is "Comedy of Terrors" with Price, Karloff and Peter Lorre. Hilarious. I think the entire movie is available on YouTube.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    And don't forget Basil Rathbone! Only fellow who can't stop quoting Shakespeare - even in death! :)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    And Price was never able to get his father in law to take his "medicine."
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • CharlesSA
    Posts: 163
    @StimsonInRehab Oh no, you are not the only one...though maybe most of the ones who do are shut up in monasteries!!! One of the best things about my Christmases of 2016 and 2017 was the fact that they were at Clear Creek, and their Christmas Eve/Christmas is truly a marathon! It starts with Matins at 9:15pm Christmas eve, sung fully according to their chants (i.e. no recto tono which is what they usually do for Matins). That is finished a bit before midnight; so Midnight Mass follows shortly after. After Midnight Mass is completed, they sing Lauds of Christmas day in full ceremony for Solemnities. After Lauds, all of the priests say their private (Midnight) Masses, which includes most of the other non priests since they take one server each. Those not serving these Low Masses get to go to bed around 2:30; closer to 3:30 for the others. Then, they get up at 6:30 or something and do Prime at 6:50; CC always does Prime recto tono, but not for Christmas - sung in full chant. Right after that is the concelebrated Low Mass at Dawn (it is a bit odd, but we need not get into that here...). Then a little break for breakfast and lectio before Terce and High Mass of the Day. So in a span of about 15 hours, they have Matins, Lauds, Prime, and Terce sung in full; Solemn High Midnight and Day Mass, as well as the Low Missa in Aurora. The only thing they need to do now is to have a solemn High Mass for the Dawn Mass and have the priests say their own Low Mass, and then it would be even more of a liturgical marathon!!! Anyway, Christmas Eve/Day is a special time at Clear Creek and I just loved that liturgical marathon! I will always treasure those memories and thank God for having given me the gift of spending time there.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,075
    Um... just to get back to the OP....................

    Am wondering, are there people on this forum who received a similar mandate?
    And if so, how did you go about organizing your task?
    Any experiences you'd like to share will be helpful to other readers, now and in future. Thanks!
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • I was once hired with the express purpose of putting the parish through De-Tox.
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress