Mass of Creation, Part 2!

This is good, right? That's the Gregorian melody.

Unlike the chanted Our Father melody currently in use, this doesn't resolve more often than the melody for the Latin (eg, "as it is in heaven.") This seems to me to be a big improvement.

I rather liked Richard Rice's (or was it Kurt Poterak's?) from Colloquium 07.

The adapters failed to analyze the set-forms of the Latin chant thoroughly before they started to apply them to the English texts. They took a phrase by phrase approach, failing to recognize which notes in each part of the formula were essential and which were epenthetic. In another member of the formula they broke a two-note neume (ga) that in the Latin chant is never broken, even though the English text did not require the change. They may have been expert musicians, but they weren't students of chant composition.

Compare "who art in heaven" with "thy kingdom come." The same member of the formula was used in both phrases of the Latin chant; but the second time it was expanded to accommodate the greater number of syllables in "adveniat regnum tuum." These adapters retained the extra notes when they set "thy kingdom come."

Winfred Douglas did a much better job 100 years ago. I see only a few defects in his work. He misplaced the final accent of "hallowed be thy Name" because he refused to modify the cadence, even though it is, in fact, a "disguised" redundant cadence. He also ignore the accent on "this" in the phrase "this day," and the accent on the second syllable of "forgive" in the phrase, "forgive us our trespasses." These defects are easily corrected.

I would propose the attached. Unfortunately, ICEL carries out its work in secret and does not invite suggestions from outsiders. In the Episcopal Church revision of the hymnal and the Prayer Book were open processes, and little was adopted without trial use.

Whichever of you chant adaptors that has aided and abetted the use of grouped stemless modern notes (with SLURS even, just in case the mushed-together look isn't graphic enough), in place of traditional notation, can congratulate yourselves that ICEL has jumped on the bandwagon. What a foul-looking, irrational, totally meaningless compromise this system is. All such publications will receive just scorn from even remotely intelligent musicians in future years, mark my words.

IMO, it is not one bit better than the 1974 Sacramentary. Yes, the melodies are drawn from the Gregorian. But their modifications to fit the English loses virtually all the original rhythms. So, if you do go from Latin Mass to vernacular, confusion reigns! When we experimented with Rite II at Our Lady or Walsingham (years ago!) we opted to use melodies by Mason Martens rather than the modernized Gregorian, precisely because we intended to return to the Rite I version after only a short time.

If this is an example of ICEL's translations, and their composers' fudging, I see the whole exercise as a very strong reason to return to the Latin Mass, preferably the EF. This is just another generation's madness!

As Bruce mentioned before me, I will expand just a bit: this whole English translation business was quite carefully, and successfully, achieved many generations ago. Our elitist Catholic leaders simply refuse to use any of it!

Richard R. -

I so totally agree... why not just use the Gregorian notation? Far less complex once learned, and it would be yet another element of our tradition put back into it's proper place...

Is their a rhythm in this 'Our Father'? Is there any other musical elements besides pitch shown in this kind of modern notation? I don't call it a music. Chants, whether it's in English or in Latin, deserves better music than just black note heads. This supposed to help the singers who are not trained as musicians? How do you expect they can interpret those black notes and make music? People who sing from this kind of notation need to learn to sing chants. They will be learning from the musicians who are trained to read chant notation anyway. Otherwise they will be singing just note-heads. So give them the real thing, not the instant-quick -fix, which can only give the superficial ideas of chanting. No wonder people turn to the catch tunes. Maybe it's about time to help people to take church music seriously.

I'm with Steve; the melody in the current 'Sacramentary' book is one of the few successes of chant-like music in common use. Replacing that tune -- which has been in use for about 45 years, I think -- with this one isn't going to produce a clear benefit. Congregations can sing the current one without reading from a booklet, and that won't be possible any more.

Attached is John Boe's analysis of the "set-forms" employed in the (Latin) festal Pater noster chant.

Between the lines I have inserted my own English version, which is really a revision of Winfred Douglas's version. An examination of the chart will show that the chant can be adapted to English words with its "set-forms" intact.

Singing is easier when "set-forms" are consistently applied, even when the singers are not conscious of them. The singers still develop an unconscious sense of "what will happen next" that they lose when the "set-forms" are ignored in a transcription.

Well, I don't really love the Our Father that we've been using all these years. But it does work, and the people know it. The problem is in trying to go back to the original chant, either festal or ferial, but not quite all the way when it comes to the feeling and the actual notes. Even in Dr. Mahrt's version, there is one note that is a step lower than its Latin counterpart. OTOH, using the Anglican Rite I version at one Mass, and then going to the Latin at the next, FEELS totally natural.

Again - why do we insists on reinventing the wheel? The Anglicans charted the way for us late-comers to the vernacular!

Well, none of us can comment on what ICEL is doing, can we, since we don't have the log ins.

My emails to the USCCB go unanswered.

I was reading Dr. Mahrt's commentary on MUSIC IN WORSHIP last night --- I feel it's scandalous that he's not been invited to be a major part of these type of things.

And you did this by writing where? what address?

I just received my username/password combination from BCL.

WLP's "Gotta Sing Gotta Pray" has a direct link, no password required.

Clarification: The controversy was based in South Africa, not Australia. And yes, I think the South Africa situation helps contribute to the current secrecy.