Tournemire's "L'orgue mystique" in the Novus Ordo
  • voxhumana
    Posts: 1
    The organ journal Vox Humana just released this article by Douglas O'Neill about using and adapting Charles Tournemire's monumental liturgical cycle of organ propers (originally for the Tridentine Mass) in the Ordinary Form/Novus Ordo Mass. Thoughts?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Perfectly good music, but the biggest problem I find in adapting to the NO is the different sense of time. Much of that music is too long for available times in the current mass. I am fond of Dupre and do selective cutting and pasting with him, Peeters, and others.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,183
    Charles...you are off track. The question is not whether you think the music is good or whether the sense of time. The question is whether you find the information in the article useful or the application useful. Those of us who play the NO might find the information useful in its application or the use of Tournemire. Stay on task.

    BTW, I play Tournemire many weeks out of the year and never have a problem with the time. Finally, someone who has come forth to apply LOM to the Novus Ordo. It is sorely needed.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Tournemire is fine music. I play SHORTER Tournemire pieces. Although some tell me this is not what they want to hear. Who was it that said the world is not ready for Tournemire. I like him and find him excellent mass music.

    The article makes assumptions that don't bear out in many places. Play during the Introit? Nice, if you can do them. Introits are often non-existent in the NO. The priests usually don't sprinkle, and they don't go vest. They march down the nave and are ready to go when they get to the altar. Offertory's still exist but are often taken up with choir anthems. As the author noted, Elevations are gone, although I can use such pieces for non-choir masses at offertory or communion. Those shorter pieces work quite well during communion time. People who write from the standpoint of the EF seem to not realize a different world now exists. The author is at least honest about the old world passing away and having been replaced by a new norm. However, I support his view that the older music can still be used, although you do have to be willing to adapt.

    As for time, depends on the size of your building and whether or not your priest is antsy and wants things kept moving. I do a lot of cutting and pasting with many composers, not just with Tournemire.
    Thanked by 1mgearthman
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    Charles,

    I have never served an EF community on any regular basis as part of my work, and I am not approaching it from that standpoint. I intentionally shied away from any comparison of the EF and OF Masses, because that is not the point. I would rather not this discussion veer down that path; anyhow, that has been covered copiously on multiple threads. The article proposes what is possible. Of course, an OF Mass with chanted propers is hardly typical, but if we were interested in what is common, rather than what is possible, there would be little reason for CMAA to exist at all!
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I agree for the most part, and it was a good article. I am a CMAA member, but do find it can be a bit myopic when it hints that all can be restored to what it was. Realistically, that probably wont happen and having lived through all the changes, it could actually get worse. Let's pray that it doesn't.

    If you can restore those great musical works to regular use, then I will cheer you from the sidelines. I actually slipped in a small Tournemire piece 3 weeks ago, and a Peeters piece last week. I will be playing a Jehan Alain piece at communion in two weeks. I find that if I pair a more contemporary composition with another much older, the congregation doesn't object as much. Four weeks ago, a lady stormed the loft after mass to complain about a Dupre piece. Go figure.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
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