Is the attendance at your service growing? If so, tell us what is working.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I just coined that one... you are free to use it.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 369
    The masses in my area have declined in attendance across all demographics for several reasons. First, I've noticed that each community grows or shrinks in proportion to the attention the members receive from the priest. Our pastor takes frequent vacations, and has avoided the English speaking community so much that his command of the language has slipped. In addition, when we have a regular guest celebrant, attendance spikes. Finally, the young people disappear after confirmation while the elders pass away.

    I am encouraged by a visit to an EF parish in Manhattan. The parish was packed. Many families were worshipping together. The reverence was heart-warming, and even though there were many young children at mass, you could hear a pin drop. The respect for the celebrant and Eucharist made me feel truly Catholic. I loved it and I am going to try to implement some of what I experienced at my home parish.
    Thanked by 2Carol Incardination
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Noted and logged. I guess I learn a new abbreviation nearly as often as the Vatican updates its communication technology.
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    I've noticed in my non-Catholic singing work here in Toronto that Anglican and UCC churches just tend to be far more inviting and warm, irrespective of their theology on such matters. I've been personally welcomed by the presiding clergy at large Anglican cathedrals as a guest singer, whereas everyone at Catholic churches seems to just scuttle off after Mass and priests don't usually say a word to me. I have a very good relationship with the priests where I usually work - but I would say that church is an outlier among the Catholic parishes here.

    If I didn't have the faintest clue about Catholic dogma and the supremacy of Rome, and was selecting my denomination and place of worship solely on the liturgy and the friendliness of the community, I know where I'd stay away from. I think this is something we seriously need to tackle, particularly us traditionalists.
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn MarkB CHGiffen CharlesW
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    ...far more inviting and warm...
    I can certainly echo Schonbergian's experience. Both before I became Catholic in the early '80s and after having done so. Once in a while I will still be engaged to play at a Lutheran or an Episcopal church and the people and clergy are invariably friendly, welcoming, appreciative, and thankful for my having been there. I have only very rarely had this happen at a Catholic Church. The pastor and his wife of the large Lutheran church at which I was organist & choirmaster for fifteen years and that I left thirty-five years ago continues to attend all of my Houston recitals at Walsingham, St Basil's-UST, or elsewhere. Of all the Catholic priests I know only a very few ever bother to come, and that only rarely.

    As a somewhat apposite aside, some of Walsingham's members attended a Catholic conference of some sort somewhere back east a few years ago. On returning to Walsingham they recounted to us how that all the other Catholics had remarked to them 'are you sure you're Catholic??? You're so happy!!'
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Elmar
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    "Come on in! The water's terrible!"
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I'd like to put in a good word for irascibility.

    This is not to negate what has been said above. Don't get me wrong, we should be charitable more often than not, but when you're at coffee time discussing the Resurrection and someone opines on how they believe dogs got into the tomb and ate Our Lord's body, hence His not being discovered (and yes, this example is taken from real life), I should think one would have reason to be a little miffed. Not to the point of shooting the person, prudence forbids that I think, but enough that we should call out that person for holding an opinion.

    I should hope Catholics would be angry, in the proper amount and at the proper time. As Aquinas reminds us - anger desires, as its proper object, justice. And if anything, we need to remember to be angry at ideas and concepts first, not people.

    This is why I don't really find trads all that unfriendly. You just need to get to know them better. Trad personalities are like the liturgical rites they follow - never judge them on first impressions. Get to know them.

    "Come on in! The water's terrible!"


    image
    Thanked by 5M. Jackson Osborn chonak CHGiffen Elmar Incardination
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Trad personalities are like the liturgical rites they follow


    a) imbued with a love of God, and not usually warm and fuzzy
    b) prone to give you more than you can take in at once, especially if you think you have to understand every word
    c) hated by folks who think that "relevant" and "modern" are synonyms.
    d) the same, year in and year out
    e) naturally and supernaturally beautiful
    ….. [someone else take over now]
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    f) dress nicer, sound cooler, and smell exquisite.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Self-righteous, arrogant, superior, insufferable, and far too full of themselves. They don't have to be this way, but too many are. It only takes a few to poison everything.
  • Elmar
    Posts: 500
    g) urgent issues are treated as if our lifespan was infinite.

    To the original question:
    Attendance almost doubled when weekend mass schedule went from 2 to 1in July ...
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Attendance almost doubled when weekend mass schedule went from 2 to 1in July ...


    Funny how that works.
  • Elmar
    Posts: 500
    Quite simple: Most people (80% or so) who went to the now cancelled mass now come to mass when our choir sings. Which means that our music seems to be not too off-putting to them ;-)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I have concluded that many don't care what music you use. They just want to get their "obligation" in and pretty much tune everything out.
  • Elmar
    Posts: 500
    That may be the case, although our in our country many people who come to mass (I dare say, the majority) don't seem to care about Sunday obligation. This might be different in the parish where I am choir director, though ... I understand that it used to be a catholic island surrouded by protestantism for centuries.

    The first time we sang in the new schedule, we got quite some positive feedback from people who I think usually attended the other mass, so I believe our music was not too much against their personal tastes.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Charles,

    It's true that there are some people who are
    Self-righteous, arrogant, superior, insufferable, and far too full of themselves.
    but this is not (necessarily) anything to do with the traditional Mass they attend. Remember, the list I started was in response to how the people are like the rite they attend.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    My point is that these misfits are drawn to the TLM. Someone else may know why, I don't. But they surely make the nicer folks there look bad.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, (Matt. 23:5 RSV)
    Which is not to say that they are all misfits, just that TLM draws them.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I should be worried if the TLM didn't attract misfits as well as the normal folk.
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    I think one could easily find this applicable to BOTH those who attend the OF and those who attend the EF:
    [1] Judge not, that you may not be judged, [2] For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. [3] And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? [4] Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? [5] Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
    (Matthew, 7:1-5)

    Perhaps we would be better suited to avoid broad, sweeping generalizations about those who attend the "other Mass", and focus on how best to improve ourselves. Just a thought.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen rich_enough
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am sure it is not your intent, but that scripture gets pulled out whenever someone doesn't agree or wants to deflect positions different than their own. We are always free to observe. In fairness, the situation I mentioned has improved greatly in my own place. The craziest folks have either left or been driven out.

    I think what draws the off-the-beam folks to the EF is that it can turn into a ritualized costume party. The EF is full of externals and glittery trinkets, and that is an attraction.
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    My problem isn't with observing particular situations... it is extrapolating an observation from a limited context into a sweeping generalization. If I excoriate those who attend the OF based on some observation of repetitive uncharitable behavior in my own experience, that would be just a wrong as making a statement like "... misfits are drawn to the TLM." There are crazies everywhere, not just in one group. There are those who are uncharitable everywhere, not just in one group. That doesn't have anything to do with wanting to deflect a different position; it has to do with simple truth.
    I think what draws the off-the-beam folks to the EF is that it can turn into a ritualized costume party. The EF is full of externals and glittery trinkets, and that is an attraction.


    Again, think you that the Novus Ordo is really different? Masses with people dressed up as clowns? Wearing football jerseys? With face-painting? Or that the NO people never make judgments, never throw tantrums, never try to block those from the "other Mass"?

    All we can focus on is ourselves, not the behavior of buffoons on either side. THAT is the intent of my post.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Again, think you that the Novus Ordo is really different? Masses with people dressed up as clowns? Wearing football jerseys? With face-painting?


    Again, something that comes up every time. In my 70 years, I have never seen any of these behaviors at any mass.

    Or that the NO people never make judgments, never throw tantrums, never try to block those from the "other Mass"?


    I have thrown a few tantrums in my time and thought they were justified. However, I would gladly invite some to attend another mass somewhere else. The farther away the better.

  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    Again, something that comes up every time. In my 70 years, I have never seen any of these behaviors at any mass.

    Hmmm... hence the problem with drawing from your limited experience to make sweeping assessments.
    Clown Mass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgKweu0ZWVs
    Various: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQPkYwIOCRM

    Sometimes, it is better simply to admit when one is wrong and move forward instead of trying mental gymnastics to justify one's position.

    BTW, here is the justification (??) for the Clown Mass: http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2014/09/29/the-legitimate-liturgical-function-of-clowns/
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Evidently discussion of the original topic has been completed. Thanks to everyone who contributed on that subject.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Carol
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