Survey (OF): Who chants the Propers, dialogues, Ordinary, Credo regularly?
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 571
    I'm DM/organist at a fairly small parish in Georgia, and I've been wondering lately how many of you out there have music programs which resemble ours. We have a small volunteer schola, and we always chant many of the dialogues, the Ordinary, the Propers (Lumen Christi), and the Credo (ICEL Credo III) at Sunday Mass. Most of the time we have a processional and recessional hymn, and sometimes a communion hymn. On higher feasts, we use the antiphons from the GR.

    Our music program is one of maybe two in the entire diocese that does this, and it's a fairly isolated parish, so I was wondering how common this sort of program is for you guys at large. Also, specifically, I've noticed that the Credo is very rarely sung even in very traditional OF congregations. Do any of you chant it regularly on Sundays? Thanks in advance for satisfying my curiosity.

    *Edit* The Paternoster is chanted in English. Ordinary is English Roman Missal chants during "Ordinary Time," simple Latin chants during Advent/Lent, and Mass VIII during Christmastide and Eastertide and on various high feasts.
    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • TCJ
    Posts: 977
    At my parish we ordinarily use chant the offertory and communion. We use Fr. Weber's book and began with the simple ones and are slower moving into the more difficult chants. We switch in and out of singing the entrance antiphon, but we are using it more and more and singing less hymns. We sing the Creed, too.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,188
    We sing all the dialogues, all the propers plus hymns, the Pater Noster also. At one mass we sing Credo III. Been at that for two years now. The only one in Palm Beach,FL diocese.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,923
    The NO parish I attend occasionally on Sundays, when their choir sings, has at the very least, the Communion from Fr. Weber's propers. If the directrix has had ample time (or I do) we sing the introit before mass. We chant responses. ICEL mass. Spoken Credo. It's meh but it's honestly the best our diocese has.
  • EvaS
    Posts: 19
    Both my work parish and my home parish do. I shouldn't speak for my home parish as I'm not involved with the music program there.

    At my work parish, the adult choir, children's choir, and cantor chant the following:
    - Chant Mass (ICEL) but in Latin in Lent
    - Mass VIII in Ordinary Time in the fall and winter, Christmas (except for the Solemn Mass
    on Christmas Eve), and other special occasions
    - Propers: Introit, Offertory and Communion at all Sunday Masses (Simple English Propers
    for the adults; Lalemant Propers for the children for now)
    - Dialogues: chanted at the principal Mass on Sunday, and usually at one other Sunday
    Mass because of the celebrant
    - Credo III: very rarely
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Our schola only sings on solemnities due to work-related travel, so I wouldn’t call it “regularly”. That said, we chant all the propers, the ordinary except the credo, and various Latin hymns/chants.
  • At the Cathedral of Our Lady of Walsinghm, Houston -

    Always -
    All dialogue, collects
    All propers, normally from the Anglican Use Gradual, on solemnities, Palmer & Burgess
    The gradual psalm is sung in directum to Anglican chant
    All the ordinary, normally Merbecke, on solemnities and festal seasons Willan or a choral ordinary
    Our Father
    Creed, recto tono
    Prayers of the Faithful (the Universal Prayers)
    All three readings are sung on solemnities

    In short, the only thing not sung is the homily.

    The above is at the 9.30 and at the 11.15 solemn high mass

    At 8.00am is a sung Ordinariate Use mass with a Gregorian ordinary in Latin, and propers from GR.
    At 6.00pm - low mass

    At the 4.30pm Saturday vigil mass a single hymn is sung, at the offertory.
    This is strange, but it's what we do at that mass.
    The people at this well-attended mass do sing the hymn heartily.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,039
    For all of the masses with music (5 out of 7 each weekend) we sing:

    - the Introit, Offertory, and Communion chants in Latin, with verses for the offertory and communion;
    - Kyrie, Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation (#1), Agnus in Greek / Latin (Mass VIII), with the Gloria and Credo in Latin at one of the Sunday masses (English Gloria and recited Credo at the other masses);
    - all the responses (except before /after the readings and the dialogue before the gospel, and the prayer of the faithful) as well as the Our Father / Pater Noster.
    Thanked by 1PaxTecum
  • PaxTecum
    Posts: 311
    For all of the masses with music:
    ICEL Mass & Communion antiphon SEP (alongside 4 hymn sandwich)
    Resp. Psalms - Sam Schmitt
    Alleluia - Graduale Simplex mode vii
    Spoken creed & all responses

    We used to chant all of the SEP propers alongside hymns until we were told not to...


    Interesting side note, I attended "High Mass" a few times recently at the Abbey of Montecassino in Italy and here's what they did on the few occasions I was there:

    Gregorian Introit, Offertory & Communion
    Resp. Psalm / Alleluia mode vi in Italian
    After communion antiphon, simple responsory - psalm tone viii in Italian. "Eterna è la sua misericordia"
    + one of the masses from the Kyriale; I don't remember which one.
    -Spoken creed & some responses sung but not all.


  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 542
    Schola and choir are all-volunteer; no cantor in the usual sense (mic’d soloist singing everything), so we are a bit limited as I am the only musician to be had.

    Saturday vigil mass, Sunday late mass:
    -Hymn at entrance and offertory
    -ICEL/RM English chant for K/G/S/A
    -Psalm/Alleluia, I trek downstairs from the organ and we sing unaccompanied.
    -Communion, lector reads Missal antiphon; I improvise on it with allusions to the Graduale antiphon if it matches, or related hymns, and generally try to expound it musically. In times of penance when the organ is silenced, I sing the antiphon.

    Sunday 7a mass:
    -Missa lecta, no singing, organ improvisation before gospel, at Offertory, during communion. No organ in times of penance.

    Sunday “high mass”, e.g. smoke and song:
    -Choir sings weekly; +Schola on feasts/solemnities.
    -Gregorian introit if schola present
    -Hymn
    -All dialogues and everything noted for the celebrant in the missal is sung, including English Credo I, excepting lessons (lay lectors). Gospel dialogues sung; Gospel itself on feasts
    -ICEL/RM ordinary or choral mass on some feasts
    -Responses to universal prayer sung
    -If schola, Gregorian offertory and Communion are sung; if not, choir sing polyphonic setting, or some vernacular anthem with congruent text.

    On holy days of obligation or in Holy Week/Christmastime, at the high mass, the schola sing all the propers, including Gradual and Alleluia, and the congregation sing a Gregorian ordinary (VIII usually, IX for Our Lady) with Creed III.

    At the high school masses, my students sing the Gregorian introit and communion+verses, from the GR and proper to the feria (when applicable); the priest sings the preface, and the Marian antiphon is sung for the procession out. There is a hymn at the Offertory, really the only place where there’s enough time for one.

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,955
    We sing some propers (communion) always. Offertory, never, and sometimes introit as a prelude. One of our priests sings the "Our Father," and the other priest never does. We don't sing the creed. Makes the mass too long, you know.

    I should have mentioned that the Ordinary is always chanted.
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    We only chant the Kyrie. I am wondering what it would be like to go to a mass where it is all chanted at this point. I went once a few years back and thought, "So this is what non catholics feel like when the go to a catholic mass for the first time," and it evoked a great range of emotions that I, a lifelong catholic who has a degree in liturgical music from a catholic college, could go to an EF mass and feeling totally like an outsider. It was so sad. I wish there wasn't such a divide. //hijack of post over//
    Thanked by 1PaxMelodious
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    At our Novus Ordo Mass:
    We always chant the Ordinary - most often in Latin, but some seasons (like "Ordinary Time," except for feast days) in English (the Credo, thus far, is still only chanted in English).
    We tend to do a choral introit and offertory, and an English psalm tone, followed by Gregorian communio.
    Our responsorial psalm is from the Chabanel Psalms book.
    Our Alleluia tone varies by season, but the verse is to a psalm tone.
    Our dialogue is chanted.
    The Our Father is chanted, in English or in Latin.
    On feast days, our readings and gospel are chanted.

    At our TLM: everything is chanted, as a Missa Cantata would imply.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Dialogues — usually
    Propers — always
    Creed — never
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,697
    We chant all the dialogues, the Propers (in english or Latin), chant the whole ordinary... Credo III at 11am Solemn Mass.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,155
    We chant the dialogs. During Lent and Advent, we chant the Kyrie in Greek and the Angus Dei and Sanctus in Latin. Starting with Easter Vigil, we will have one Mass where we will chant the Kyrie, Angus Dei, and Sanctus in English, along with some of the Propers (we will start with communion and gradually work for an entirely chanted Mass). And hopefully, work towards the Ordinaries and Propers in Latin.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • I never cease to be amazed (as the saying goes) at the ways in which people mark penitential seasons with chant and Latin, and what a senseless shambles are their rationales.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 977
    We use Latin chant during Advent and Lent... and also during the Easter season.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • TCJ,

    How do you get around conveying the opinion that Latin is mostly for penitential seasons?
  • Chris -
    TCJ said that he also uses Latin during Eastertide.
    This is nothing but laudable - and lets him 'off the hook'.
  • toddevoss
    Posts: 162
    my previous parish (merged into liturgical mediocrity in a parish merger) used to chant in latin all year round for the ordinary (kyrie, ok-greek, gloria, sanctus, agnus dei) but chanted the our father in english (snow) and did not chant/sing the Credo. Said it in English.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,155
    @MJO - You'd have to take that up with my former pastor and former choir director (both retired for several years.)
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,697
    During the choir season we alternate Sundays between polyphonic Ordinaries and chant Ordinaries.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • TCJ,

    My spectacles' prescription is (evidently) in need of an update.

    Sorry.

  • TCJ
    Posts: 977
    CGZ,

    Not a problem. I figured you had just missed the latter part.
  • Annunciation in Houston (my former parish) has an OF Latin Mass with full sung Propers, Ordinary (w/ Creed), and dialogues.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    We celebrate a novus ordo Mass in Latin, completely sung; all chant propers, including gradual and alleluia sun g by choir, all chant ordinaries sung by congregation, lessons sung, priest sings all his parts, except for intercessions (and sermon).
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    I usually attend OF Mass at the Benedictine abbey where I'm an oblate. Sung Latin Propers, Latin/Greek ordinary, all from the current Graduale Romanum. The rest except the homily is in French plainchant, every day except on ordinary weekdays, the universal prayer is read, not chanted. I usually attend twice a week, on Sundays of course, but also on Wednesdays as I do volunteer work at the abbey's library. I do sing along with the monks.

    In the small schola that I sing with, we do the Gregorian propers/ordinary once a month at different parishes in the small city in which we are based, but we recess for the summer.

    Ora
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Saturday evening "Low Mass" OF: organist/cantor: Hymns at Entrance and Communion; organ music or silence at Offertory, the only "Proper" sung is the Gospel Acclamation from the Lectionary. Only Sanctus and Agnus chanted (Mass XVIII), the rest recited.

    Sunday early morning "Missa Cantata" OF: organist/schola: All processional Propers (Introit, Offertory, Communion) sung without verses, followed by hymns/motets. Gospel Acclamation from the Lectionary. Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus chanted, usually in simplex settings or Mass VIII. Pater chanted, along with Mystery of Faith & Doxology. Dialogues & Psalm recited.

    Sunday "High Mass" OF: organist/choir & choristers: proper Hymn Tune Introit (by Kathy Pluth). Offertory & Communion chanted (Fr. Weber)---Communion with verses, followed by hymns/motets/anthems. Responsorial Psalm chanted (Pew Missal) or occasionally the Gradual. Alleluia: one of the Melismatic settings in PBC2, verse (music based on solemn psalm-tone with opening and closing melismata) from Gregorian Missal; replaced by the Tract in Lent. Mystery of Faith, Doxology, & Pater chanted. Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus chanted, with congregation (Masses VIII, and XVII, are sung complete during Christmas/Easter and Advent/Lent; in Ordinary Time movements are taken from Masses XI, XV, XVI, XVII, and Ad libitum chants); occasionally choral Mass settings are employed. No dialogues or orations are usually chanted (yet), nor the Creed (yet).

    Weekdays (Tuesday thru Friday p.m., Saturday a.m.) Sung Mass, OF: Introit, Offertory, and Communion chanted (Fr. Weber), without verses (except Comm. With verses), followed by hymns. Sanctus and Agnus chanted (simplex settings), Kyrie recited (part of Paenitential Act III). Psalm recited. Alleluia: melismatic setting from PBC2, verse (simple psalm-tone) from Lectionary. Mystery of Faith, Doxology, and Pater chanted. Seasonal Marian Antiphon (simple tone) chanted after Mass, Tues. thru Fri.

    Sunday afternoons, fully chanted EF Sunday Vespers, including dialogues and orations. Marian Antiphon at end.
  • St. John Nepomucene Cleveland, Ohio : A very small city parish. We ( an amateur schola) sing English propers and chanted ordinaries. We know more than a handful of Latin propers too- including the Jubilate (off). The celebrants' intonations of dialogues are dicey so we omit most. The schola likes chanting the Credo, but pastor prefers it recited. We've been singing all the propers for about 5 years. The Recessional is a popular hymn. I store my programs here: https://gregorianchant.weebly.com/index.html
  • Every First Friday and 5th Sunday of the month, at an archdiocesan shrine in the Philippines, we sing the Mass, giving Gregorian chant the "main place":

    Our schola sings the full propers from the Graduale Romanum — ideally including the Gradual.

    If there's enough time at the Preparation of the Gifts, we include a melismatic psalm verse from the 1935 Offertoriale.

    For the Ordinary, we've been using the De Angelis Kyriale. We sing the Pater Noster. We just recite the Creed in English, although we'd love to sing it in Latin.

    After the Dismissal, we sing the seasonal Marian antiphon (Sunday- solemn tone; Friday- simple tone).

    We've also sung the chants from the Graduale Simplex if we don't have enough time to prepare the music from the Graduale Romanum.

    We distribute liturgy booklets that contain the Latin texts and English translations, along with the notation for the Kyriale and Marian antiphon.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn