in search of a score
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    all,

    would anyone know where this might be found?

    Jesu Nostra Redemptio
    Francisco de Penalosa

    many thanks!!
  • maestrodicapella
    Posts: 129
    Try Mapa Mundi Music.
    Thanked by 1stulte
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    Maestrodicapella - gasp! what a source!
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    drat. Mapa Mundi does not have it.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    Although it's a hymn, are you sure it's not in 72A, Motets for 4 & 5 vv? If not perhaps the Five Spanish Liturgical Hymns (ATTB) 90A listed further down; JNR is unfortunately omitted from Das Chorwerk at IMSLP. A well stocked academic library is likely to have one of the two other Works listed at CPDL's page.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • maestrodicapella
    Posts: 129
    http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/b1/IMSLP52761-PMLP109235-Das_Chorwerk_060_-_VA_-_Spanish_Hymnal_from_1500.pdf

    Is it no. 5 in this collection?
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix CHGiffen
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    Good catch! IMSLP indexing is only (cough) as good as volunteers make it.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    RMix- this morning I had email from Martyn Imrie at Mapa Mundi, saying they did not have it - but Maestro, YES the #5 in that IMSLP link is the polyphonic part of what I've heard THANK YOU !!!
    now all I have to do is find the Gregorian part of it ("it" being what was sung by the Concentus Musicus Minnesota on their CD Court and Cathedral).

    For the Gregorian, so far I have only looked at GregoBase (1961 Graduale Romanum), and although they show two melodies, neither is the one I heard. but I'm on my way! Many thanks, all of you, for your help!
  • maestrodicapella
    Posts: 129
    http://plainsong.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Bruno-Turner-Toledo-hymns.pdf
    Is it this collection?
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    the Gregorian they recorded is very close to what's at that plainsong.org link, page 26, item 021B.
    I don't believe you found it. Thank you!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    The Gregorian melody is indeed in the bass part of the motet as a cantus firmus, which almost exactly fits the melody from the Toledo hymns (021B), with an extension for the cadence (in the motet).
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    CHG - yes I saw that. thanks.
    could you help me understand the last part of it (measures 24-28)? In the CCM recording, SAB parts seem to be holding their notes out through these measures while the tenors sing... which is a lovely effect ... but the score doesn't seem to say they should do so. I am not sure how to read this (sorry if this is the Dumb Question for the Day)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    In polyphonic music of that era, a longa as the final note in any part signified that the note was to be held until the other part(s) had finished. In a modern transcription, one might instead see the longa in each of the SAB parts replaced by six tied whole notes - six, not five, as the final longa in the T part would correspond to two whole notes (in the transcription, which replaces a semibreve in the source to be transcribed as a modern crotchet (quarter note). So, indeed, the SAB parts hold their final notes until the end.
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 411
    This forum is amazing!
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    on the score, it was the blank measures coupled with question marks at the end that got me. Thanks so much for your help!
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