Byrd mass for 3 voices transposed
  • countertenor
    Posts: 17
    Does anyone have an edition of Byrd's mass for three voices transposed up a 4th or a 5th? Or does anyone have a copy in a notation program where they could easily transpose it up a 4th or 5th? If yes and you're able to share. Thank you.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Countertenor,

    I could easily do it (i.e., I have the transposing ability and a type-setting program) but I'm pressed for time right now..... and I must ask: Why on earth would you want to transpose a piece which already has tenor A-flats and b-flats (above middle C) up a fourth or fifth?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    Perhaps it would be more suitable for the forces at his disposal as a Mass for SAT / SABar than ATB?
  • Kevin814
    Posts: 42
    I've done parts of this Mass with SAT singers, up a fourth from the written pitch. It does work quite nicely. But my copies have gone AWOL for some reason.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    I did it in A (down a sixth) a few years ago but that seems to be on the old hard drive. David Fraser has since fixed the two typos we discovered in his edition on CPDL, which has code for Sibelius, as well as editions using Finale, Cappella, MUP, Encore and Noteworthy. It's a little surprising that only two transpositions seem to be on offer as pdf's, though.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    I would appreciate a transposed version for SAT or SAA...
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    Will post an edition transposed up a fifth for SMzA very shortly. Just tweaking it now.

    Thanked by 2janetgorbitz countertenor
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Richard,

    The edition in F doesn't appear to be Byrd's original, but a transposition. Down a 6th would be G
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    The edition in F doesn't appear to be Byrd's original, but a transposition.
    Source for this assertion? AFAIK Byrd's original was indeed in F.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    Chris, you can always check the first edition but I think Chuck is right. This does put the original request (a fourth or a fifth) in a new light, though! ;-)
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Chester Music, William Byrd Mass for three Voices, edited by Henry Washington, c. 1961:

    a) makes no mention editorially of a change in key, although it does mention other "editorial additions/adjustments.
    b) typesets the piece in e-flat.
    c) provides Byrd's original c-clef notation, which appears to have only one flat, but I'm not sure that this is decisively, therefore, F.

    I'm open to correction, and will check your source, Richard. Thank you.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    c. 1961
    As eminent musicians have said to me with a wink, "the dark ages".
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    David Fraser has authoritatively edited and published all of Byrd's choral music, generously, at CPDL. And his published edition is in F.

    That Henry Washington actually typesets the work in E-flat and does not specifically mention change of key whilst mentioning other editorial additions and adjustments, plus providing the C-clef notation with a single flat (as in the IMSLP facsimile), does not bode well for and E-flat version as being the original key of the piece.

    I don't know of anyone else who seriously thinks that Byrd's original key was anything other than F (ie. one flat in the key signature).
    Thanked by 2Salieri tomjaw
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    I withdraw my assertion. Thank you for the information.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,156
    When using this Mass liturgically, what is (or, was) done with the Kyrie? It seems not to repeat the invocation three times, as in the mass-book. Just askin'.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    There are no rules for how many times the words must be sung when set polyphonically.

    While I know some people who have contrived different ways of making it six- or nine-fold, either by repeating the whole movement two or three times, or by adding in ridiculous repeats into the score (sing first Kyrie twice, then the Christe twice, then repeat the first Kyrie, then sing the last Kyrie); I have found all of these to be clumsy. I have my choir sing it through once as written; it's what works.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Andrew_Malton
  • countertenor
    Posts: 17
    Sorry I posted this and then haven't been online. Chris, the reason I was asking about the transposition is that I have a group that wants to do it in an SSA or SmzA configuration.
  • countertenor
    Posts: 17
    *
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    When using this Mass liturgically, what is (or, was) done with the Kyrie? It seems not to repeat the invocation three times, as in the mass-book. Just asking'.


    When we have sung this (EF) we have sung it thus,

    Chant Kyrie (Mass XVI)
    Kyrie 1
    Chant Kyrie
    Christe
    Chant Christe
    Christe
    Chant Kyrie
    Kyrie 1
    Kyrie 2
  • David
    Posts: 11
    Hello everyone. I was looking for a version of Byrd's Mass for 3 voices transposed up (starting chord of the Kyrie: A-flat major) so that it can be used with SAT. Did anyone end up finding a version? If not, I'll engrave it in Finale.

    Mainly, I'd like to use the Agnus Dei and maybe the Sanctus. Thanks!
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