Ah I see what you are saying. I tried to get it in, but that did unfortunately have to involve cramming. Had there been incense, I probably wouldn't have had to cram it in.

I guess you could say it was better than no Introit at all. Father would have killed me if there was no processional hymn.

While it's often true that it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, church musicians usually don't get to employ that reliably. A pastor gets to surprise, but not the musicians.

Well, he’s wrong, and he’s backwards. The hymn replaces the Introit, not the other way around. Technically you can’t read the Missal text if there is a hymn, but it takes a strict liturgist (of the liberal variety, I think) to care if one does.

In practice though both are often done. He’s also, from what it sounds, against the Introit in general… :/

I often hear both at cathedral Masses with long entrance processions: the introit first, then a hymn; though there's no rule against singing the hymn first.

We have a long aisle and incense every Sunday, and we have plenty of time to do a full hymn and the SEP introit. We do both, in that order, every week.

I'll take IrishTenor's method for $200, Alex. The Introit, strictly speaking, IS the accompaniment to the entrance procession (see Mahrt on 'music to move by.') But the "must-have-it-or-it's-not-'church' entrance hymn is better titled and used as a 'gathering song.' So gather first, process next. Voila!!

Noeisdas,

At this point, I would ask to understand Father's reason, so you can apply his rule and avoid overstepping bounds further. Don't be even slightly snarky about it: you want to understand, to become lower maintenance, to think with your pastor. It sounds to me as if he's simply opposed because, well, just because.....um...... beats the heck out of me, but you'd rather hear him tell you his reason than have me fumble around to find a rational justification for what you describe.

Well, then, let's shine a searchlight on the score, as Lukas Foss would say:

47. When the people are gathered, and as the Priest enters with the Deacon and ministers, the Entrance Chant begins. Its purpose is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical time or festivity, and accompany the procession of the Priest and ministers.

48. This chant is sung alternately by the choir and the people or similarly by a cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, there are four options for the Entrance Chant: (1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another setting; (2) the antiphon and Psalm of the Graduale Simplex for the liturgical time; (3) a chant from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including Psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.

Looks a lot like the sense of the instruction is that the chant is sung during the procession.

Your interpretation may vary, but I'll stick to the plain English.

I'm in Canada, not far from you, and we sing an opening hymn (short - sometimes only two verses) and the Introit at every mass. Along with that we sing a hymn followed by an Offertory Proper (often chanted in Latin) and we sing the Communion Proper followed by a hymn as well.

We are an OF Parish.

We have a mass which is labelled the "Gregorian Mass." All of the propers are chanted in Latin. Last week the Offertory Proper was so long that there was no hymn.

But, these are all initiatives of our Pastor. I would not do these without his explicit approval.

Also- purple bold- if we waited until all of the faithful were present... well that's not until the Credo!! ;)

Ain't that the truth.

At Walsingham we always sing the introit following the Entrance Hymn. We also always sing all the propers either to AUG, or, during festal seasons, Palmer-Burgess.

I do agree with those above who counseled not springing surprises such as this at mass. I disagree with the priest's opinion (and it is just that: opinion), but neither he nor the people should have been treated to a surprise of this sort - or any sort - at liturgy, by musicians OR anyone else.

Here in this place the hippies are gathered.
Ready to sing their gathering song.
They can not sing chant cause their memories are failing.
Plus it would make the mass too long.
tra-la-la-la-la-la-la (interlude).

He may, as it was in my case, be scolded for even suggesting it, complete with a stern "the Church doesn't do that anymore!"

More than likely he would have corrected you told you what he wanted and kept you from doing this and thus not have to scold you later.

Fixed. No correction is necessary because it is entirely legitimate to sing the Introit as the processional, as indicated in the above quotation of the GIRM. It is also entirely legitimate to omit the Introit in favor of a congregational hymn, also indicated by the above quotation of the GIRM. So, neither option is more correct than the other for the OF. The priest does have the right to choose from those options for the liturgy. FWIW, I don't see any possible legitimate reason to suppress legitimate practices, especially if you have musicians who are willing and able to implement them.

It is commonly done this way at the vatican:
1) Processional Hymn or Polyphony (often Tu Es Petrus) followed by;
2) Introit when the Holy Father reaches the altar.

Who is to say that we cannot do the same??

I've been a member here for a bit but never actually posted anything. Thought I would throw in my two cents.

I don't consider myself an ultra-conservative Catholic, but more an ultra-conservative liturgist. I don't like happy clappy liturgies which seem unsolemn and inappropriate for worship.

I'd be walking away from a lot of pastors, then.

Noeisdas,

I don't like happy clappy liturgies which seem unsolemn and inappropriate for worship.

Neither does the Church. Pius X explicitly forbade anything which, regardless of its musical quality, was unsuitable for the august worship of the Trinity.

And so the lowly capital letter re-asserts its significance.

OK
...

I am chiming in once again...

An idea...how 'bout consider yourself a "Catholic" liturgist...it will save you a lot of pain and heartache, and is probably what the Holy Spirit wants anyway!

Be careful what you attribute to the wishes of the HS

The catch, though, is that one can't improve the practice of church music in a parish if one isn't involved. Really reforming the music in a parish (building toward a fully sung Mass) takes several years -- and that's if the pastor is enthusiastically for it.

Chonak, that may be your experience, but my experience has been that if the pastor is against 'correct' sacred music, it doesn't matter how many years you spend 'trying to coax him (or them, or the parish) 'over' to the 'correct' form... You either have a priest who harkens back to tradition or do you don't... it's doesn't take long to find out... and worse, when the 6 year tenure is up, it's fair game for whatever the next pastor has a liking to put in place... no stability, no consistency, no promises and no guarantees that the years you struggle to put authentic music in place will last beyond yours (or the pastor's) tenure. A few years back I interviewed with the most conservative Bishop in the U.S. in terms of 'sacred music', and in the middle of the interview I found out he was 'being moved'. Nothing is predictable.

Use your "parachute clause" and put yourself where you will be appreciated for supporting actual Catholic Tradition.

I spent about a year working in a parish that was slowly migrating AWAY from authentic sacred music (Gregorian Chant which had been long established in the parish) and toward singing the SEP as a "bridge" back to the VII ideal of vernacular liturgies and the presidential (not celebrant) form of celebrating the Mass.

Chonak...

OK... I digress... my apology... I just think we need to tell it like it is... there is no 'building' steadily toward an authentic music program in the U.S. as far as I am concerned.... Just saying. The changing of the guard means anything is possible, and anything can change for better or for worse. I guess my 55 years of experience with the NO shows me to be a curmudgeon. Well, so be it... at least when I stand before God I will have told it straight from the heart.

I take Settefrati93's word for it, but wasn't able to find any videos of full Masses prior to Pope Francis on the Vatican YouTube page. If you find some, please post a link or two. Thanks!

Isn't this pointless quibbling? Chris, nobody is requiring you to like the practice of singing a hymn and an introit. But you haven't cited any _rule_ against it, or any _reasons_ against it. Let's get out of this rabbit hole.

Keep in mind most papal liturgies (at St. Peter's or elsewhere) usually feature a very lengthy procession due to nave length, number of servers/deacons/priests/bishops in procession, the Holy Father's entourage, etc., so there usually is time within the procession to do both a hymn and the proper Introit.

The USCCB responded to a question on this practice just a few years ago, which answers the question of whether this practice should/can be done. That being said the OP shouldn't have done it without consulting their pastor first.

Dubium: A Major Catholic Basilica in America has the following practice: as the priest processes to the altar, they sing an opening hymn. Then, as the Bishop incenses the altar, they sing the Proper Introit in Gregorian chant. Is this practice licit?

Responsum (Feb 14, 2012 at 7:29 AM): Thank you for your question. Why would you think it illicit to sing both a hymn and the antiphon during the entrance, especially at a more solemn liturgy involving the bishop when the procession and the incensation of the altar might require more music to accompany the action? This is, in fact, the practice in many cathedrals, especially at stational masses of the bishop which include the whole presbyterate of a diocese (such as the Chrism Mass or ordinations).

Executive Director, Secretariat of Divine Worship, USCCB, 3211 4th St. NE, Washington, DC 20017