And, there are, yet, some fringe Protestants who have apoplexy when their choirs sing Gregorian chant or they are asked to sing a Catholic hymn which is in their hymnal. All these people, Catholic or Protestant, need to realise that we are no longer in the XVI. century. We have grown, and wherever possible need to be healing wounds, not pouring salt in them. A hymn which contains no heresy and affirms what is true is ipso facto a Catholic hymn, though a 'Protestant' may have written it. Truth is Truth - no further label is necessary.

One aspect is simpler than all of this....when you think of Now Thank We All Our God does Catholic come to mind? How about The Church's One Foundation? O God Our Help In Ages Past. How Great Thou Art?

Faith of Our Fathers. Holy God, We Praise Thy Name...Come, Holy Ghost.

If these names do not trigger an automatic Catholic/Non-Catholic light in your head, a further study of hymns may be required....it's not just teh texts, but also the company they keep.

100% agreement with what M. Jackson said. The only thing that matters is "is this text true?"

Now that I work in the EF

It's generally considered safest to limit music selections at the EF to music which was actually used in Catholic worship before 1962. This is obviously not required by law. If the community is entirely composed of people who normally go to the Novus Ordo, and there is little exposure to "Traditionalist" literature, you could get away with including more modern music and "baptized" Protestant hymns. Follow the pastor's guidance in addition to your conscience.

people have strong opinions and I want to be able to reassure them this hymn is acceptable.

You will likely be unable to do so, and your attempts to try may cause further offense, and you may be tempted to take offense at their response. Some of them may choose that moment to leave in a huff and go to an "independent" chapel. There are theological issues. And a lot of bad feelings have developed over the past fifty years. It's hard to cover all the nuances I know about in a single post.

I hate to say this, but do NOT try to understand the ways that most EF-goers think. It will only drive you insane.
"Now Thank we all our God" is a fantastic hymn. But, sadly, your typical EF-goer will prefer "Bring flowr's of the fairest" !

Ioannes Andreades, a good background story hasn't exactly made Catholics warm to Amazing Grace.

Chrism,

Am not a big fan of Amazing Grace, though I don't have issues with the content. I do think that the sentiments in Now Thank We All our God lend themselves well to the Eucharist while those in Amazing Grace do not.

I have been playing, and preparing the music selections for our TLM for over 5 years now. I still am asked about all those "protestant" hymns that I pick. When I ask for specifics, I am almost always told "Faith of Our Fathers". I gently explain about Fr. Faber, his background, and that all of his hymns were written after he became Catholic. I also point out that the hymn is ABOUT persecuted Roman Catholic saints over the centuries IN England, and that it is one of the quintessential "Catholic" hymns! Of course, I use the original text - NOT the current GIA text, which IS the protestant version that has removed Mary's name!

Hymnal companions are our friend in this front of the battle!

Sadiefair:

I have to disagree with your assessment of the GIA hymnals, especially Worship. I have found even Worship III to be a good hymnal with solid texts and good music. My parish has Gather Comprehensive. There are some things that I don't like: the inclusive language, some of the songs included, etc. But there are some good and solid hymns in there that are appropriate, as well as Gelineau chant psalms. ESPECIALLY in Worship, but even in Gather, there are settings and pieces worty of the mass in my humble opinoin.

Bruce, I think I understand your point. To clarify, I don't worry about limiting things to Trent. I just want to use theologically appropriate hymns. The question of who is in union with the Church is secondary, though worthy of consideration.

I think people in the USA have had such a tough history- before and certainly after the Council- maintaining Catholic identity in a non-Catholic culture, that some are extra wary. This is understandable, but its also important to make distinctions.

I don't know about hymn selection when Paul VI came here, but I wouldn't use that as a standard considering the selections for DC last year...

Evaluating the text seems the safest way to go, all in all. Thanks for your input.

I cannot name any bishop of late (and I could be mistaken) who has given any imprimatur to a hymn. I would love to know if there are any out there.

A strong argument for why musicians who work in the church should be theologically educated as well as musically.

Kevin: I cannot name any bishop of late (and I could be mistaken) who has given any imprimatur to a hymn. I would love to know if there are any out there.

Perhaps the next time someone publishes a hymn, she could ask a good bishop to give one.

A strong argument for why musicians who work in the church should be theologically educated as well as musically.

That's true, but the state of theological education today (especially for laymen) is not much better than liturgical catechesis. People are saying that even formally Protestant hymns are a better alternative than modern Catholic hymns, and they're right, yet Catholic priests and musicians program those same modern Catholic hymns week after week. Many of these people in charge have received what passes for modern theological education. Only rarely today are priests heard "plainly stating, and explaining" Catholic doctrine. (Come Holy Ghost has a good example of "plainly stating, and explaining" the Filioque clause: "And let this be, our ne'er-changing creed, that Thou dost from them both proceed, (repeat) that Thou dost from them both proceed.")

So without Imprimaturs, we're still stuck with trusting the musician to be doctrinally correct. Knowing that a musician has a theological education won't help me trust his theology, I'd need to know where he was trained (e.g., the FSSP Seminary). And if you need to have a good pedigree to pick good music, then we're back to an elitist model of distribution--not particularly efficient at reforming Catholic worship immediately. I don't have that kind of pedigree, and I know I am not qualified to censor hymns, but I'm the one responsible for choosing music. To whom should I go?

The answer, at the EF, is to try to limit oneself to music that was licitly used in Catholic worship before 1962. Most of this material was published with Imprimatur. The upside is that much of it is out of copyright, or at least the copyright holders cannot be found. The downside is that the books can sometimes be hard to come by.

I would agree about imprimaturs. After this question came up, I called a friend who works in another diocese to see about getting an imprimatur for a hymn text I had written. He said this bishop no longer gives them as there are other more pressing matters. (The diocese in question is NOT mine).

As far as theological education, I would disagree. I am a layperson and I have been rather well-educated (better than many priests). It is a hit or miss situation, but solid education is available. Also, one must always keep reading. Stereotyping does not help the cause. Yes, much theological education is pablum in comparison to the other disciplines of academia, but there are hard-working individuals and places providing strong emphases on the various aspects of the church. One of my teachers (Gerald O'Collins) said that "the meat is there, but it takes strong teeth to eat it."

off my soapbox now.

Bishops rarely give imprimaturs or nihil obstats to anything any more. It's not prejudice against hymns; it's a de-emphasis on the bishops' teaching mission. Why you would de-emphasize that in a world crying out for teaching is beyond me....

Sometimes I wonder what the folks in the chancery get up to, all day. They seem very busy, but most of them never do anything useful for anybody I know. :)

I don't mean to be prickly, but as the topic was introduced . . .

People who work in chanceries help make it possible, usually behind the scenes, for the diocesan church to carry on its mission. I'm making a mental survey of my colleagues in our chancery, and they are indeed very busy supporting the Catholic schools, the RCIA program, pro-life programs, deacons and priests, religious-education efforts, the bishop, parish bookkeepers, seminarians, church construction projects, Hispanic ministry, youth ministry, and a lot more. My office? We publish the newspaper and maintain the website.

Most of what we do is invisible to the faithful, whose primary relationship is with a parish. That's the way it's supposed to be. But yeah, we're busy.

Imprimatur...have applied for one from the local diocese, but no Bishop. Local Censor sent me to the Archdiocese, but that Archbishop referred me back to the local diocese for consideration of the local Bishop once one has been appointed/installed/and recovered form the shock of moving to East Tennessee. (my words, not his)

You must apply where the book is being created....or in the Diocese where it is being published, so shopping around is not exactly encouraged, according to the rules.

But here is a Diocese and Archdiocese that does take it seriously and will consider books for the process.

MA, just a note to say that this hymn is not mentioned in the Dictionary of Hymnology (Julian).

You can decide to sing or not. At my parish everybody loves to sing hymns: we always sing the recessional, and it is always seasonal.

We'll sing either Attende, Domine or Parce Domine as Processionals throughout Lent, and some song about Lent as Offertory and Recessional, e.g. Forty Days and Forty Nights, Again We Keep This Solemn Fast, or Lord, Who Throughout These Forty Days.

On the second Sunday there is the Gospel of the Transfiguration, so hymns about transformation/ conversion would be appropriate. And hymns like The King of Love My Shepherd Is would be good for the Fourth Sunday.

There is good stuff in every hymnal, and almost every composer has written something useful. I haven"t looked carefully at OCP lately, but I think Farrell's Restless Is the Heart, DeBruyn's In Perfect Charity, and Foley's May We Praise You, O Lord are all good and have texts and sounds appropriate for the season.

Just my 2 cents--I'm really just thinking through these things too!

Sounds great. I think those simple latin Ordinary parts can give a sense of unity in different masses.
Thanks, Kathy.
(How the Spanish people take this, latin at all. not used to a Spanish mass. isn't it easier for them to do latin than English speakers?)

"some of these old classic hymns of the Reformation included anti-papal verses.'

Do we really need to use them, because they have beautiful melodies?