Cathedral custodian loses job, after cleansing the temple.
  • Column in the Omaha World-Herald.


    The cathedral also hosts six concerts a year, according to a former chancellor: "Cathedrals are kind of the epicenter for culture presentation and development."
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,713
    “Cathedrals,” [the rector] said, “are kind of the epicenter for culture presentation and development.”


    Exactly WHOSE "culture," Father?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,007
    I have secretly wanted to sneak into a church with touchdown Jesus and send the cross crashing to the floor, take down the banners and burn them in front of the building, and put large tacks and firecrackers in the priest's chair. Confess. I bet I am not the only one with dark thoughts. LOL.
    Thanked by 1Ben Yanke
  • Bravo for Mr Kenny!
    Now, how do we cleanse the Church of sacro-pop, sacro-rock, sacro-C&W, sacro-Deiss, sacro-Haugen-and-worse, and so on, which are welcomed into the Church precisely because of their non-sacral aesthetic by those who can't stand, or are embarrassed at, real Christian worship. It is astonishing, the utter inability of the sacerdotal persons involved in this calumny to find anything at all incongruent in this blasphemous and irreverent hollywoodesque cavalcade. Too bad that they don't have holy minds to go with their 'holy orders'!

    (Mr Kenny should be ordained right now - and every one of these priests, and their bishop, de-frocked and made janitors.)
    Thanked by 2CharlesW dad29
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 363
    This is my diocese. Considering writing a diplomatic letter to the Chancery. The Chancellor is a good friend of my father's.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 728
    In a similar vein, Charles, I have often (pretty much every week, unless there were decent wedding flowers left behind) considered taking some floral scissors and cutting out all the sprays in altar flower arrangements. They don't make me look at the crucifix, they make me think, "wow, do they not see the flower monsters that I see, with all the weird tentacles waiting to grab a server?"
    I actually mentioned it to one of our priests (but outside of our parish) and he seemed to think it a decent idea, and that there probably wouldn't be anyone around to see it was me if I just waited until after a Mass some time.

    Since we're in Lent, though, I really want to throw out the altar "arrangement" of...dry reeds?

    Who pays for these things? Are they really okay with the flower monsters in the sanctuary? If I ever donated money for altar flowers, it would be with the stipulation that I get to choose the arrangement - though, I sort of suspect they'd reject my offer.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,113
    "arrangement" of...dry reeds?

    The Peaceable Kingdom: The paper reeds by the brooks (Randall Thompson)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MHusXMdQ-U
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 363
    From the CDW:

    http://www.adoremus.org/concerts.html

    Churches, however, cannot be considered simply as public places for any kind of meeting. They are sacred places, that is, "set apart" in a permanent way for divine worship by their dedication and blessing.

    As visible constructions, churches are signs of the pilgrim Church on earth; they are images that proclaim the heavenly Jerusalem, places in which are actualized the mystery of the communion between man and God. Both in urban areas and in the countryside, the church remains the house of God, and the sign of his dwelling among men. It remains a sacred place, even when no liturgical celebration is taking place.

    In a society disturbed by noise, especially in big cities, churches are also an oasis where men gather, in silence and in prayer, to seek peace of soul and the light of faith.

    That will only be possible in so far as churches maintain their specific identity. When churches are used for ends other than those for which they were built, their role as a sign of the Christian mystery is put at risk, with more or less serious harm to the teaching of the faith and to the sensitivity of the People of God, according to the Lord's words: "My house is a house of prayer" (Lk 19:46).
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    Vilyanor, I used to live in the Omaha area. Our parish was St. Matthew’s and then St. Mary’s from 2001-06; my BSA troop was largely made up of St. Columbkille parishioners. So I am angry to see this. (Nowadays I would split my time between the FSSP & Ordinariate.)

    I’ll be writing.
  • SomeOne else cleansed the temple once upon a time, long, long ago.
    The priests were amongst the most vociferous in demanding that he be crucified.
    What is it about priests, the stewards of all that is holy???


    (And, no, one doesn't lose sight of those many priests who are exemplary in their holiness.)
  • I think it's just that, MJO...

    Some stewards think they own what they take care of; some regents think they are King.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    MJO, why the inclusion and indictment of Deiss? Just curious.
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 363
    [Edit: I removed the draft of my letter after sending it to the Chancellor. I may reupload later, if appropriate.]
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 363
    Matthew, that's pretty much what I do when I'm home from Benedictine. I go to St. Peter's with my family fairly often and they at least do the introit and communion propers, but I'm sick of hearing the Missa de Angelis or Jubilate Deo Mass every Sunday of the year -_-
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,234
    I love this sentence...

    "He said he sees nothing in “the broad language” of the catechism that would preclude such displays as Mary Poppins being suspended from the ceiling of the cathedral."

    hmmm... let's hang batman, the suspended house in UP, and buzz light year there while we are at it. the broad language of the catechism will surely not object!

    ... and what about those big puppets from the famed puppet mass... at least they were 'set aside for sacred purposes'.

    (fire is coming soon)
    Thanked by 1Vilyanor
  • Melo -
    Admittedly, there is a very great difference between Deiss and some of the other stuff that I listed. One might begrudingly even say that Haugen, too, is better that some of that other stuff. That being granted, I see Deiss as inapt for liturgy because his music simply lacks that ceremonial, ritual, gorgeous and inspirational character appropriate for liturgical celebration. It is rather anemic and not very much different from the Taize genre - nice, if one likes it, for private devotions or para-liturgical exercises, but not for the profound splendour of public liturgy. Still, though, his music is far better than the company I put him in up above. Thanks for the question: you made me think twice.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,007

    "He said he sees nothing in “the broad language” of the catechism that would preclude such displays as Mary Poppins being suspended from the ceiling of the cathedral."


    Has anyone considered hanging the chancellor from the ceiling?
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 728
    "dry reeds"

    They remind me of the brooms from the Sorcerer's Apprentice.
    Someone really likes "floral" displays that look like they'll come to life and get you, any second now..
    Thanked by 2tomjaw eft94530
  • advocatusadvocatus
    Posts: 85
    I was in charge of sacred music at this cathedral from 1998-2008, and I can tell you that the event in question is an anomaly in its tradition and sustained liturgical practice. Saint Cecilia Cathedral has been a bastion of traditional Novus Ordo celebrations of the Mass, replete with liturgical chant, excellent choirs, choral polyphony, congregational singing, impeccable acoustics, and a landmark organ. I'm not defending "Mary Poppins," nor judging the custodian (whom I understand has a history of prophetic social activism), but I would caution against over-the-top assumptions about the archbishop, rector, chancellor or what goes on in this otherwise exemplary cathedral church. An unfortunate situation all around, however.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    That’s why I’m stunned. These people do know better...
    Thanked by 2CharlesW tomjaw
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,574
    A flower festival during Lent ?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,007
    Maybe they had purple flowers.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • rarty
    Posts: 93
    Another site describes the event as a two-day exhibit every January and has has images from the affected display... which sure seems to have obscured many of the images, chapels and devotional areas of the cathedral with several conspicuously secular images.

    I'd think even the designer/florist who proposed the "Grease" (!) display was surprised it made it into the cathedral.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Reval
    Posts: 150
    Doesn't this town have a botanical conservatory or something? That's where this display belongs (or any other secular public building), not the Cathedral.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,574
    Thanks rarty.
    So it was not in Lent.
    Purplebold=on. It is a monumental relief to know this. Purplebold=off.

    If you didn’t know you were standing inside a church

    Yeah I guess that was a bit confusing for many.
    But not me because i saw saint mary poppins
    and all the others.

    A 1985 (thirty-one years ago) bad decision declared harmless
    that becomes more entrenched with each passing year.
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    In several more years, Mary Poppins will be co-opted by mother church as have been so many originally pagan personages who have displayed saintly characteristics. (cf St. Cecilia)

    I expect the Graduale of 2116 will contain propers for Blessed Maria Popinia, Doctor of the Church, Patroness of Sweeps, Oscar winner.

    Introit: Nutrito aves
    Alleluia: Ego amare ridere
    Gradual: Super calle frage listic ex pial a docis
    Offertory: Perfecta a matricibus
    Communion: Cochlearium saccharo

    What about St. Shrek, you say? Well, what about him?
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 292
    The poor custodian was just doing part of his job: taking the trash out.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,234
    I wonder if the lawyers were called in to access the damage Jesus made when he went through the temple over turning tables.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw ghmus7
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,007

    What about St. Shrek, you say? Well, what about him?


    Shrek was de-canonized for deviant behavior. ;-)
    Thanked by 1MBW
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    Shrek was de-canonized for deviant behavior.


    In 2116 perhaps those who are de-canonized will be cannonized.
    Boom! Did you see what I did there?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Speaking of conflating synonyms leading to a boom, since when does the Swamp Meister's flatulence constitute deviant behavior? Seems totally appropriate both to Shrek and to natural law, just ask my French Bulldogs!
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,437
    My sympathy to the janitor who clearly just couldn't take it anymore. On a much smaller scale, I was a bit shocked by the raucous behavior at a local church rehearsal last night for a dramatization of the Stations for which my daughter's group is singing.

    Before the rehearsal began the teen actors were shouting, wrestling and horse playing in the sanctuary with no correction from their adult leaders. During the rehearsal they lounged on the sanctuary steps laughing and chatting with friends and the silliness continued, including throwing objects and a girl shouting across the church to the leader to "send me an email tomorrow!" as she left.

    It didn't help that someone had brought a puppy guide dog into the church who was barking at the antics.

    I do give the teens some credit since they rebelled en masse when it was time for a Resurrection Dance at the end of the Stations. They all groaned and begged the adults not to make them do it. I was somewhat disappointed since I was curious to see some of the large, bearded young men dancing.

    To the kids' loud cheers and delight the dance was postponed till next rehearsal which will be in costume. (I can't wait.)

    I assume this level of irreverence is nothing new, but it was new to me. My daughter asked me several times if I was sure it was a Catholic church, and unfortunately it was. Very sad.
  • That's really sad, Julie.
    I think that liturgy and worship are fun. They are highly, profoundly enjoyable to me on a certain spiritual level. Perhaps 'holy "fun"' would be a way to put it. This kind of 'fun' is wholly human, involving mind, body, spirit and soul in a sometimes near ecstasy - even in penance and contemplation. I'm certain that I am not alone in this. (I hasten to add that my worship is not predicated upon 'experiencing' this sacred 'fun'. That's what makes it special when it happens!)

    This is, isn't it?, very different from the kind of 'fun' that these adolescents' supervisors think that their charges need, or are so immature and shallow as to find congruent in their experience of worship. This is a serious indictment of adults and priests who think that worship is, of itself, so boring, such a burden, such a profound embarrassment, that we must dress it up, redeem it, with 'fun' stuff. It is refreshing, indeed, and perhaps justifies a bit of holy Schadenfreud, when we see certain youth who are actually put off by such antics, and are wiser than their elders.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    Holy fun, like Fr. Quintin Montgomery-Wright...
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,437
    Thanks for the helpful perspective, MJO. Holy fun is singing an EF Missa Cantata with chant and polyphony. Most fun you can ever have in church. : )
  • Beggin' to differ, but an EF Solemn Mass with chant, polyphony, and a 19th-century organ Mass is the *most* fun you can have in church.

    Holy Fun for Choirs
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,104
    It is interesting that Diess, which 30 years ago you used to hear every week in church has totally disappeared. You cannot even find his music in any hymnals anywhere. One HOPES that will be the way of much that we hear today.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Yes, but what you find in hymnals instead is not exactly better than Deiss...
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,234
  • ...not exactly better...

    Indeed!
    And that probably explains why Deiss is forgotten - he wasn't bad enough.
    Actually, he wasn't really bad - just not good, boring, sort of like Taize.
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    I am very uncomfortable with including Lucien Deiss in the unlettered group of composers whose work is emblematic of the post Vat II liturgical music mess.

    I have an LP of Lucien Deiss conducting a male choir in Paris. (I don't remember the name and it is in the garage with all the other LPs, sigh.) The repertoire is all polyphony, primarily Renaissance. The performances are very beautiful. To me, this recording, along with his chant recordings (see OCP!) and incidental experiences I had with him years ago at workshops, establish his bona fides as a talented and serious classical musician, something one cannot say about the waves of American folk/pop composers.

    Here is a site where you can hear him conduct chant:
    http://www.musicme.com/#/Lucien-Deiss/albums/Paroles-De-Dieu-3133580130564.html

    None of the pop wave musicians wrote anything which approaches this sonority:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzRh1jwICzM

    To my ear, the music of Deiss shows the influence of chant rhythm and melodic (modal) structure. His music seems to have been written in obedience to what he saw as Vat II's requirement for a certain type of congregational singing. I think his music is an attempt to bring serious compositional technique to simple, "singable", music. As such, he has my respect to a greater degree than most of the mainstream post conciliar composers. Like many of the mainstream composers, his texts range from good to excellent.

    To be sure, his music is far from universally successful. His rhythm, which reflects both the freedom of chant and its original French language, is sometimes stilted. His melodies are sometimes oddly angular. At his best, though, he provides simple attractive music without maudlin pop/emotional overlay. His choral writing is well crafted and vocally idiomatic. He writes organ and brass accompaniments (himself!!) which work very well in the right context.


    I regard Deiss in much the same light as Alexander Peloquin and (to a lesser degree) Richard Proulx: a fine musician who tried mightily to find a way to bring a serious music technique and perspective to a liturgy in the midst of a seismic ecclesial and cultural shift. It should not be surprising that they were not entirely successful. Just the same, I believe that they are to be admired for how well and bravely they soldiered on. While a component of Proulx's music is surviving, Deiss' and Peloquin's seem, at this point, to be dead ends. (To cite an example from an enormously different level of accomplishment, they are like Hindemith-prolific and influencing virtually none.)

    Now that I am finished damning him with faint praise, here is the bottom line: I still use some Deiss, and would use more if it were still available in the throw-aways we have in the pews.
  • A Thomas Tallis, Thomas Morley or William Byrd for our time?
  • MBWMBW
    Posts: 175
    A Thomas Tallis, Thomas Morley or William Byrd for our time?


    Still looking!
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,437
    An update on the youth group dramatizing the Stations of the Cross: they must have got all the sillies out last week because they were very focused and reverent at last night's rehearsal. Their devotion was really impressive. There was a nice Praise and Worship style song with guitars after every Station, and at the last Station our girls' trio sang Dulcis Christe by Grancini. It was very warmly received, and one dear disabled young man clapped loudly, and said with amazement: "That was so holy!"