Is there even any current legislation dealing with chimes? So many places have digital chimes these days. I only have a zymbelstern, no chimes.

I would use real organ chimes at times if I had them. I, personally, would not use the amplified bar type or the digital ones.

We have a small pipe organ that, surprisingly, does have chimes. I use them sparingly, mainly Christmas, Easter, and other big feasts.

...seems tacky to me.

Oh, soooo tacky. Tastelessly maudlin.
I thought that only Methodists used them.

It's interesting, the papal legislation quoted above. Italian organs at that time were routinely kitted out with drums and cymbals. In fact, if one heard the sort of organ music which was commonplace in Italian churches in the XIXth century until too recent times to contemplate, he would scarcely believe that he was not at a circus, but in a church.

Madorganist, I don’t disagree with the legislation, but our organist had chimes which he accidentally used for the Pie Iesu in the Fauré Requiem which was sung as the elevation motet. And it was fabulous, if incorrect. I forget the original reason why he had played them though.

Henry, that would also seem to be more of the theater than of the church, along the lines of gongs, cymbals, etc. which the SCR banned (though I have seen a hammered percussion instrument which was clearly used for that purpose: I just shook my head) and even if it is not banned now in the Ordinary Form I would shy away.

Now the accordion is no more shocking than a glimpse of stocking.

Hmmm. Sez who?
Er, where is this?
You, um, won't hear them at Walsingham!

Glad to hear it!

Perhaps I should have written in puce. I agree that chimes (and again I mean real tubular bells as part of a real organ) are not tremendously useful. However, I hesitate to say that any stop can never be useful. I hope our taste is not overly narrowed by academia.

Any sound that we produce, on any instrument, may be used tastelessly. The most ravishing, vocal, polyphonic 8' principal could be misused. By the same token, a poor stop may find its rare, valuable use in some unexpected context.

Of course, this argument does not apply to the ukelele. (Color me purple, uke fans.)

On a related topic, Oprah and I are still deliberating about whether the organist who modulates (however cleverly) between verses of hymn may enter the kingdom of heaven with the really, really small camels.

The first rule of hymn accompaniment is:
1.) Hymns are for the congregation to sing. They are not showpieces for the organ.

The second rule is:
2.) Do nothing that throws the congregation off and inhibits their singing.

Otherwise, why bother.

Chimes seem hopelessly tacky to me, and thankfully, I've never heard them liturgically.

Here are two alternate rules for accompanying congregational singing:

1. Lead! with accurate, exciting rhythm.

2. Do nothing that bores, and everything that inspires.

And a bonus third rule:

3. Play with a well formed musical conscience - this will take care of most taste issues.

I wonder how many chime opponents have hand bell choirs? I have never understood the fascination some have with those things.

OK, CharlesW, I believe we are reading from different paragraphs on the same page.

The original purpose of handbells was to practice change ringing without disturbing the whole town with the tower bells. I'm sure that some 'bright' fellow at Schulmerich or elsewhere was zapped one day with the realisation that they could make a fortune by peddling them to as many churches as would fall for it for 'hand bell choirs'.

Actually, I have heard some (meaning very few) instances of their use which was positive and seemed artfully legitimate. Some really good (and rare) compositions call for them. Most of the time, though, they are just a cute way for people to be entertained by their children or grandmothers in the 'bell choir', which should never, ever, perform as a solo ensemble.

I was once in a university hand bell choir and could clang and thump with the best of them. LOL. The bells were fine for school and secular concerts. I just never found them appropriate for use for mass. For a social or devotional gathering, they are probably fine. Like many things, it is the context that determines.

I once worked at a parish that was trying to right-the-ship of the liturgy and had an established, and quite good, handbell choir. Since they were trying to move things in the right direction and many (most?) supported the pastor in this goal, but since the group was established the bells were paid for, we simply used them outdoors. During festive seasons and some solemnities, the handbell choir would play before and after Mass outside the doors of the church. It allowed the group to stay together, people got to hear the bells they paid for, and in general it was a festive thing people heard as they came and left church. It didn't really add anything for most people, I would assume, but perhaps it supported greater liturgical awareness as when people would arrive and see/hear handbells as they walked in from the parking lot, they knew it was a festive day.

I would find a gedeckt far less tacky than chimes for giving pitches for anything. In fact, I find giving a mere note or chord for pitches to be sort of a musically senseless insertion into the goings on. For a capella anthems and motets, it is far better to improvise a short 'praeludium' in the style and key, or write one out, or use the opening portion. For chant, I like to give just the notes of the incipit or the first few notes, ending back on the first note. Of course, a short praeludium would be better here, too. If a choir piece follows some other music or chant, I train my choirs to get their pitches from the last note thereof - unless I do a short praeludium to introduce it and give the tonality. If a motet or such follows a chant (such as might happen at the offertory or communion) it is quite nice to sing the chant on a pitch that sounds euphonious with the key of the motet, so that there is some semblance of tonal complementarity and flow. Ditto if it is a chant that follows some other music. When at all possible I avoid merely sounding out pitches and chords - most unforgivable are broken chords. Of course, when giving father a note for something he is to sing, it's best to give just one note!

...than a...

Well, I don't know. Probably.

In a past life, I used single handbells during Lent to give the pitch and to signal repeats of the antiphon for the Entrance Chant which, at the time, I was taking from By Flowing Waters. I loved that effect, especially the change from strophic hymns which we used the rest of the year. I'd like to do that again, but I don't have handbells now. I don't think I would like chimes for that purpose and prefer hummed pitch (gathered from a tuning fork) or the soft flute, in that order.

I also like to improvise into the tonality of an unaccompanied motet. Sometimes I try to match the affect of the motet, sometimes I create a contrast.

I've also seen handbells used effectively to simulate the ringing of church bells on Holy Thursday and Easter Vigil in a church that had no bells in the tower.

My predecessor used them almost all the time: on practically every other hymn. I use them once a year, at Midnight, to play the "Westminster Chime" and strike 12. That's it.

I have been in churches that had good sets of chimes. They seemed out of tune with the organ two seasons of the year.

won't hear them at Walsingham!

I think it is time for western rite catholics to start our own saying:

Was it ___ at Walsingham? Was not! ...

I believe I've used chimes once, but that was a long time ago on a nice little pipe organ that had an excellent set of chimes. I really didn't find much use for them, however. The digital organ I play now has, in my opinion, awful chimes so I'm not even tempted to try them.

? !