Please understand that it is important discussion.
I am agree with many points, absolutely.
The harangue or anything of Pastor or any clergy or anyone except music department according to all rules I can not even to discuss.
My desperation was about the music.
If to add the lyrics of Haas/Schutte/etc to Bach/Mozart/Schubert tunes- would it bother me?
Actually not as much comparing to
if to add the Scripture in its purity to TUNES of Haas/Schutte/.
The priest is NOT a bad person, not at all is much different with 99% of priests.
It is non of my business his sermons/interacting with parish.
What I posted as my question: the great sacred music program was created. Was existed.
Only the great hymns according to your forum and the church rules. The children Schola, the glorious Choral music with orchestra (once again, I can send as a personal email the link to recordings to prove it). It was reversed recently to 70th with a motivation that parish is shrinking because is deprived of a few songs. The deviation from my "music" question to the situation of "shrinking" and the clarification from Admin. came as explanation, I believe, that few songs just can not be a reason of shrinking or opposite the growth of parish. I can discuss the music only, and the priest, once again, despite whatever situation, has my sympathy as a human being for sure.
There is no way back, but it is ruining of what was done.
The priest has personal excuses of his delinquencies, and believe me, he is not a bad guy. He would not harm me, he is just doing what are doing all the priests, most of catholic churches. it was again never of my intruding in his area of expertise while he was just same Folk Mass dictator with a microphone as a weapon of dictating "his view". You all know, the Priest can say," find another employment, i have a different view on music program at my church"
Now. I stumbled upon the "songs that everyone knows" or "should know" in the average American/Anglophone parish."
http://musicgiftofgod.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-team.html
where together with Now Thank We All Our God and For All The Saints-

I am The Bread
Turn to me
Christ Be Our Light
The Summons

And it is same as doing priest. "Blending" a great heritage with nonsense.
What is look for all or many of you just innocent nostalgic sentiment with using those songs, in reality is just messing the atmosphere and mystery of the Mass.
please, all irony, stones at me. Just I see the basic misunderstanding here as well. Thank you.

Condorg,

Is a part of the problem that you and the priest have a language barrier?

@Chris: NO NO NO. Of course not. There is no a millimeter of any barrier, either cultural or language. I am a long time here. We do not have to talk. He is aware that only Folk Mass and Brasil WYD and Steunebville are the church.
I am working with children and adults, professionally for several years in USA, and despite my poor grammar...Well: I know great musicology in Yale and IU and Princeton and their accent and grammar are famous. The ESL for musician who are not a musicology is even more forgivable. I am not talk much at all with anyone re anything. I can not play and hear anymore Haas/Schutte/Maher/ - all of that - not in church nor outside of church. My famous friends said at West Coast they had a trouble to find a church with church music. I will edit it.

Condorg, in the plainest English I can muster, you need to find another job and get the h*ll out of there. Keeping that kind of job can kill your body and your soul. It is not worth it!

Unfortunately, condorg was using the forum to vent some personal drama from dealing with a nut-case boss; but just venting here does not benefit anyone. Really, getting out of that situation is the best thing to do, and since condorg has been there for several years, it's hard to have much sympathy for the soap opera. (Condorg has posted about the same situation previously under different usernames, and as admin I don't intend to allow any more of it.)

Chonak

Thank you. The Internet is a particularly *ineffective* place to vent in terms of cartharsis. It tends, as best I can observe over the past 20 years, to *intensify* the cultivation of resentment.

Thanks again, Richard, for the info/perspective. Many likely surmised as such. But whether due to syntax, imprecision or whatever, it is difficult for anyone to provide help because the perspective is still obscure. Which then causes reactions that complicate rather than mitigates a specific concern.
I mentioned earlier that I had a liturgy meeting (pastor, two associate pastor, liturgist, me.) 9:30am to noon, and it was all not only good but pleasant. Since the pastoral change last year and the formation of this committee ( I loathe the standard notion of what a liturgy committee does) we actually discuss not only nuts and bolts, but big picture stuff. I asked my clergy were they aware of Cdl. Sarah's (CDW) letter on liturgical east in the OF. We talked about equitable rotation of celebrants in order to achieve more confidence in homiletics. I was informed that one organist drags the tempo on a Gloria. Nothing about repertoire, ever, has been a concern to this current pastoral crew, nor any other. I'm with my third pastor in a quarter century. He also happens to be the only pastor who's ever written me up for insubordination (Who Me, Mr. Melo!) for which he had every right to do. But he did so to save our relationship, to know and solidify that I understood my role, but not usurp my role. I've made it clear in many fori that I will use the breadth of the sacred treasury to " cry the Gospel." I have been graced by God that every pastor in 45 years has trusted me to do so. And now, today....after the 2.5hr meeting, we may be on the cusp of being able to offer at least a Missa Lecta in the EF because one of those clergy and I (who didn't start off well) are of similar mind and heart that the absence of the offering of the EF in our city needs redressing. It doesn't much matter to me if an east coast DM sees everything in black and white in terms of repertoire. People need time, reassurance and truly pastoral leadership. And, like it or not, it's a big tent. Just make sure your circus is Ringling Bros., not Circus Vargas.

It is worth the investment, keeping in mind that a point can be reached beyond which the congregation will not go. Such is reality.

That's part of the problem, though: it shouldn't matter what the congregation will or won't do. I acknowledge the reality of today in that in many places the congregation's will (or perceived will) is obeyed above all else, including the will of the Church. Everyone loves the Pastor or boss who will bend or only loosely enforce the rules, or who says "yeah, but the people are more important than the rules." People love to be told they are important, and yes, they are, but rules exist for a reason, or they would not have been written. The rules of the Church, in my experience, are there to help us save souls, which is her primary function.

I digress. The point is the the Church should do what the Church does, whether or not her people approve of it, and regardless of what her people will or won't do. This includes all aspects of the Mass, including the music. No aspect of Divine Worship is a matter of personal preference.

I joined the Church 7 years ago. I feel like I now understand more than ever before, the phrase "rules were made to be broken".

Rather, it helps to remember that the Catholic Church's DNA is not North American but Roman. And not merely the Rome of Late Antiquity, but up to today. For a tangible feel for this, try driving in Rome.

There are, above, examples of and disapproval of some musicians who introduced good music 'too quickly', who 'went to fast', who 'didn't bring the people along', and so forth. While these sentiments have great value, and I don't necessarily approve or disapprove of them in any or every case, I am struck by a very serious inconsistency, a curious seeming inapplicabilty of such wise admonitions when it concerns the sudden introduction of what is not good music in a place where there had been good music, and the rapid uprooting of an established instance of good musical praxis by a priest and/or musicians who did not respect it and replaced it with their own preferences as quickly as they could do so.

The point is that wise counsel in this matter does not seem to work both ways. We seem to be on a one way street. We never hear of people 'taking their money elsewhere' or rising up in rebellion when good music is replaced with bad. We never hear of bad music people struggling to introduce their horrors and being exhilarated because they were able to sing just one of their songs during communion and 'a lady' complimented them on it. We never hear of them patiently 'bringing the people along'. Not anywhere near it! With them it seems always to be blitzkrieg. I think, indeed, that when faced with a rooted musical culture, one should make changes cautiously, respectfully, wisely, and with a professional maturity. But it doesn't seem to work both ways. In such a culture, while I counsel patience, I don't get too upset when a good musician is shown the door for a (real or perceived) lack of 'people skills'. These skills do not seem to be required of those in the other camp. They have been uprooting an established culture over night ever since Vatican II. And the people just sit there and blink.

But, and this again highlights the unlevelness of the playing field, when those (atypical?) people whose good music was replaced with bad left was the bad musician fired? Likely not!

I think, indeed, that when faced with a rooted musical culture, one should make changes cautiously, respectfully, wisely, and with a professional maturity. But it doesn't seem to work both ways.

Agreed. I left a parish in which there was decent, not great, music (but moving -- slowly, as you say -- in a good direction). That all came crashing down very quickly, in a stretch of weeks, not months or years. A few of us left, not many.

Much of the music that was introduced into my old parish could be characterized by

1. lyrics that require no thought whatsoever to comprehend (insofar as there is anything to comprehend in them) and certainly almost nothing that could be thought a substantive exploration or celebration of the Catholic faith

2. a chord structure that could be described as one measure "Here's what candy tastes like", one measure "Would you like some candy?" and six measures "Here's some candy". Repeat ad nauseum.

3. Melodies that are much more about the person singing than about directing the mind and heart to worship or celebration.

I make no claim that 1-3 are universal in poor church music, but I have found them to be common, to varying degrees. And given the baser parts of human nature, I think it is unsurprising that it doesn't work both ways.

It is equally difficult to convince somebody who is addicted to cocaine to try meditation instead.

^^ -1

Listening the last wind escape through the pipes was a much anticipated treat for me at a previous instrument, and guaranteed I wouldn't end up standing in the parking lot unable to remember whether I'd turned off the blower or not.

Having an electrician install a timer switch was my solution - after a visiting "organist" left the organ on 3 days causing the blower to catch fire. You wonder how those with such little presence of mind can ever learn to play anything.

Then, the only thing you will ever have to worry about is whether the timer is working properly.......

narcissism, paranoia, egomania, selfishness, plain old childishness and immaturity, ecclesiastical snobbery and hauteur

I can name TWO of them (EF) and 1 (OF) and justify the accusations, too. That's from a total of around two dozen that I've observed closely over the years.

It's obnoxious to assume that someone is not a US citizen because the person's English is imperfect.

Yes, indeed; some of condorg's commentary came across as intolerant and dismissive.

Readers can judge the comment.

In any case, those of us from immigrant families know that people can become citizens and live and work in this country for decades and still have rough grammar.

People who don't know that may just be showing their own lack of experience.

So I speculated. It's obnoxious to assume that speculation is either malevolent OR assumption.

I understand that. Given that our open borders can allow the free movement of terrorists - something our government seems unconcerned about - I am more suspicious when I hear those accents and see strange clothing. I have no objection to those who want to come here and work. Our government should accommodate those while keeping up with who they are and where they are. I do try to exercise what Christian charity I can muster toward those from Canada and California. It's hard, but I try.

On an unrelated note, I mean no disrespect to our original poster, but I keep reading his name as "corndog".

In terms of junk being able to be introduced at lightning speed vs Sacred Music needing to be introduced slowly, a couple of points:

1. All change is sudden, no matter how small. At some point, the change must occur and in an instant, something is different from what it was before.

2. It depends on who is pushing for the changes. This is true in any environment: business, school, church, etc. I asked the principal last year if we could do a middle school choir, which is something the Pastor would have emphatically approved of since he's been asking for it for years. She told me to put out "feelers" to see what interest level there was, and then after a couple of weeks informed me that there wasn't enough interest, even though I had twelve girls who were ready to commit. There is a teacher who is fairly close to the Pastor here, and has his ear on many things. The first time she mentions doing a musical to the principal, it's approved immediately, no "feelers," no assessment of student interest or ability level, no speaking with the music director first, just "we're doing this, and we want (translation: need, because you really can't do a musical without the music) you on board." So, long story short: if the right people are pushing for the change, it will happen quickly.

3. If we are introducing change slowly so that "people won't notice as much," then aren't we essentially lying to the faithful? They've been poorly formed, liturgically speaking, so instead of addressing that particular issue directly we try to slip in our agenda under the radar so fewer people will notice and complain? If the Pastor is on your side, he will help address the lack of liturgical formation in the faithful under his care. If not, you won't be able to do an ounce of Sacred Music if someone complains even once about it.

*DEEP BREATH*

So, here's the bottom line: you must, absolutely MUST have the support of the priest, or you're stuck.

Scott, not ragging, just trying to lighten the load and move forward.

I should have employed a different transportation analogy, G.
By the circumstances you outlined perfectly I tend to think we do not want a concours d'elegance mentality "on display," what others demean as "museum liturgy." Don't know if I'm right about that.
However, if one looks at a 1930's era Bugatti Sedan/Cabriolet, and then finds the most recent pictorial of a 2015 Bugatti Veyron, the viewer would have to be tunnel-visioned not to see the organic (if you will) similarities linking the same company's vehicles over almost a century of evolution. The opposite analogue might be found illustrating the sort of minimalist, nostalgic rationale (authentic liturgy in apostolic times) of vintage Fiats to whatever that thing they call the Fiat 500 that now demeans our byways.
So, are we talking about the same thing? Form should be synonymous with function?