LilyPond organ accompaniments.
  • I'm using the "gregorian.ly" that comes with LilyPond for transcribing organ accompaniments, but I can't figure out how to get the divisioMaxima and finalis to span the grand staff, as opposed to just individual staves. I've seen it done in LilyPond vv2.14, but can't figure it out for that version or for vv2.18. The Nova Organi Harmonia project on GitHub uses \bar, but it appears that it also has to use \forcebreak as well. I would much prefer to avoid forcing anything. :)

    I have the \CadenzaOn option enabled. It seems that removing the bar engraver means that manually added bars (\bar "|") don't show either. Is there an override I can use or an option I'm missing?
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 209
    Can you explain why you are removing the bar engraver? I have often used \bar "|" and \bar "||" in place of the "gregorian.ly" divisioMaxima and finalis.
  • That's a good question! It's what gregorian.ly does by default. I tried commenting it out, it doesn't seem to have changed anything. I've posted some files in case that helps.
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 209
    Glancing through this quickly...
    In the \layout \context block of your "al_dies_sanctificatus" file I see this line:
    \remove "Bar_engraver"
    If you comment out or remove that line, does it work?

    If not, I'm not sure what to tell you; I could try looking through it again in more detail. I have used "gregorian.ly" along with the traditional bar engraver before (e.g. see attached).
    Thanked by 1Andrew Hinkley
  • I may have found the culprit. I commented out the \remove "Bar_engraver" and ended up with bars after every note. Fixed that by commenting out the "barAlways = ##t" line. Got the bars I wanted, but it looks like the barAlways was what allowed me to avoid using manual line breaks - I think LilyPond only does automatic line breaks at barlines. Dilemmas, dilemmas. :) I'll see if I can find a workaround via editing the division markers in gregorio.ly.
    Thanked by 1JonLaird
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 209
    barAlways was what allowed me to avoid using manual line breaks - I think LilyPond only does automatic line breaks at barlines

    Yes, if you look at my score carefully you'll see I had to "brute force" it. Basically I would put the notes in, compile it, and guess about where it needed to break and add an invisible bar line!

    At first I wondered if it would be better if all of the gregorian.ly divisions had an invisible bar line attached to them automatically, but this would only be a temporary solution since these divisions do not generally occur as often as modern bar lines. Therefore additional experimentation would still be necessary. If you figure out how a better way I'd love to see it!
  • gregorian.ly is only necessary for engraving square notes in Lilypond. I think an example in the manual suggests using it for gregorian modern notation scores, but it is not necessary, and actually messes up the spacing of notes. When in modern notation, the only thing gregorian.ly gives you is the gregorian bar lines, which can easily be added without gregorian.ly by predefining the following:

    divisioMinima = {
    \once \override BreathingSign.stencil = #ly:breathing-sign::divisio-minima
    \once \override BreathingSign.Y-offset = #2
    \breathe
    }
    divisioMaior = {
    \once \override BreathingSign.stencil = #ly:breathing-sign::divisio-maior
    \once \override BreathingSign.Y-offset = #0
    \breathe
    }
    divisioMaxima = {
    \once \override BreathingSign.stencil = #ly:breathing-sign::divisio-maxima
    \once \override BreathingSign.Y-offset = #0
    \breathe
    }
    finalis = {
    \once \override BreathingSign.stencil = #ly:breathing-sign::finalis
    \once \override BreathingSign.Y-offset = #0
    \breathe
    }

    I usually put a blank bar (\bar "") after the gregorian bar line, otherwise, the next note seems to crowd it.

    The "Lauda anima" pdf above has some of the strange stretches between 3 note groups that are caused by gregorian.ly, and which also appear on the NOH github files. Those were part of an early foray into lilypond. They sort of replicate the look of NOH, but are extremely clumsy code. I have decided that I prefer something like the attached.
  • Also, there is a way to set bars invisible and to turn that invisibility off and on throughout a piece. It is a pain. No good way to automate it.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,308
    To avoid unwanted bars in chant-like (unmetered) acclamations, I've used two methods.

    Either :
    (1) use \cadenzaOn to disable automatic bars; add all desired bars manually;

    or:
    (2) Count up the beats in each phrase and set its meter explicitly (e.g., to 14/8 or 9/8 or whatever the length of the phrase dictates) and let the system put the bar at the end of the phrase. Since I'm also suppressing time signatures, the oddly numbered meters don't display.

  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    (2) Count up the beats in each phrase and set its meter explicitly (e.g., to 14/8 or 9/8 or whatever the length of the phrase dictates) and let the system put the bar at the end of the phrase. Since I'm also suppressing time signatures, the oddly numbered meters don't display.


    This is how I do it in other notation softwares. MUCH FASTER than option 1.
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 209
    cantorconvert,
    That's very helpful to know about defining your own Gregorian bar lines without gregorian.ly. Thank you!

    chonak and ryand,
    I have done that (option 2) in other notation software as well, and it certainly has its benefits. Personally I prefer the on-the-fly method in Lilypond (I usually copy \bar "" to the clipboard and this makes it very fast), and the "pre-counting" method in the point-and-click notation software.

    Of course, in spite of this, we still have the dilemma of automating mid-phrase line breaks in chant without "baralways." So far it seems the consensus is that this still needs to be done manually by guessing and checking with the compiled score.

    Perhaps we can get Aristotle in this discussion. I will send him a message.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Hinkley
  • Do any of you use Frescobaldi? It is a lilypond editor. I just started using it about a month ago, as they now have an easy to install download for Mac. (previously one had to have some computer skills just to compile the application)
    It has revolutionized using lilypond for me. It has lots of neat features like the ability to create templates.
  • I use Frescobaldi and find it very helpful. I do all my testing with it.