SSPX France celebrates Mass at St. Peter's
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,596
    So what have seminaries dispensed with in the last 40 years?


    Latin
    Greek
    Philosophy
    Theology
    Christology
    Mariology
    Liturgy...
  • Adam, couldn't agree more.
    Reminds me of an old SNL skit:
    PARADIGMS OF LIBERATION:
    neither is it about authentic paradigms, nor authentic liberation...
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,370
    There's paradigms, and there's a pair o' dimes. And some of them ain't worth a plug nickel.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • That course is actually about some very important church history.
    Its proper title is 'Pair o' Dames of Liberation' - how St Catherine of Siena and St Joan of Arc kicked ass to get Church and State back on track'.
    Women, always trouble. But sometimes in a good way.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,510
    The effects of this occurred on a lag, of course, but even by the 1970s, seminary was considered a shocking choice for a gifted young man*, whereas two generations earlier it would not have been so.


    During the Vietnam War, seminary was seen as the last hope for young gentlemen seeking to avoid the draft. Many of those "gentlemen" should never have been ordained. It's the old computer saying, "garbage in, garbage out."

    I heard a priest sermonizing from the pulpit once, on the joys of being a priest. He covered job security, ample vacation time, good health insurance, and even got to the car allowance. Not once did I hear any spiritual reason for becoming a priest. That one scared me.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 360
    I agree wholeheartedly with you CharlesW. When I was a child, the pastor of our parish was the one man I have met in life that I know was a saint. Several of the priests who served during my youth were holy men first and foremost. Personal holiness is very attractive. We've seen its effect in the lives of many saints. Unfortunately, many of the priests that I have worked with since have made me wonder whether they were called by God, or were simply unqualified to do anything else. I am reminded of the warning pope Benedict XV gave to his bishops when he told them not to lay hands on any man that they did not know. This may be the result of bishops ordaining men who never should have been priests.
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,438
    And, there seem to have been similar issues with women religious back in the day. Has anyone ever read Nun: A Memoir by Mary Gilligan Wong? It's a fascinating and painfully honest account, and helped me realize that pre-conciliar convent life was not all roses by any means, and yet I found Mary Gilligan's admission on the last page of the book most poignant: As much as she was at peace with her decision to abandon her vows, she relates how she missed some of the aspects of convent life. If I remember right, singing Gregorian chant was one of the things she missed most of all.
  • Deleted by poster.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,221
    Re the buddhist service and the comment "apparently the bishop didnt care"
    That's not really a fair comment -You may be surprised at how a bishops job acually works. Often the bishop is the last to know about something like this. And hearing about it through the media after the horse has left the barn, he cant do anything. Remember that a bishop can only act on what he knows about and many people in the diocese do not (or do not want) to inform him of what is happening.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,350
    he cant do anything


    Yes he can.

    We hold CEOs accountable for the actions of their employees, and military commanders accountable for the men and women who serve under them.

    If a bishop wants to make sure that the people in his diocese who act on behalf of his authority do so within the strictures of Catholic law, ethics, and morality, he can certainly do so. And he can also fire people who refuse to do so.
  • Other than wishing that all of the Catholics in attendance could have been a united show of force, you won't hear me criticizing the presence of SSPX today in Oklahoma City, as they offered reparation outside the Civic Center where a satanic black mass was to occur. I believe that the first 19 pictures here are of the SSPX group gathered outside the Civic Center:
    http://newsok.com/gallery/articleid/5344278/pictures/3398082
    Picture #20 begins with Archbishop Coakley leading a Eucharistic procession outside St. Francis of Assisi Church. Oklahoma's News 9 quoted the satanic priest, Adam Daniels, as saying, "One goal of the mass was to destroy the fear of the Catholic Church by mocking the items they use."
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,350
    Oklahoma's News 9 quoted the satanic priest fool, Adam Daniels, as saying, "One goal of the mass was to destroy the fear of the Catholic Church by mocking the items they use."


    And look how successful they are.

    the wicked angels, however, do not intend that the things which they do are referred to God, but the fact that whatever they do is subject to divine judgment happens against their will.
    -Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on Job


    The only effect I can imagine this ridiculous event having is an increase in respect for Catholicism among the Protestant Christians who showed up to protest.
    Thanked by 1expeditus1
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Oklahoma's News 9 quoted the satanic priest, Adam Daniels, as saying, "One goal of the mass was to destroy the fear of the Catholic Church by mocking the items they use."


    Right. Because so many people these days live in mortal terror of what the Catholic Church might do to them. Because our chief weapons are fear, surprise, and ... you know the rest.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • An aside: Adam Daniels, the "high priest" in charge of this event, is a registered sex offender:

    http://www.newson6.com/story/13167040/okc-satanic-group-says-they-dont-deal-with-sex-offenders

    If you think of the proportion of priests in the Catholic Church accused of child abuse compared to the number of Satanic priests accused of child abuse - is it really the Catholic Church we should be fearing?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,510
    I am afraid the Catholic Church is a toothless old lady posing no significant threat to anyone or anything. That once was not the case, but is seemingly more and more true for any practical purpose. I suppose we could try to wound the Satanist priest's self-esteem...
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,370
    Since August 28th, less than a month, this thread has gone from SSPX France celebrating Mass at St. Peter's to various aspect of dissecting SSPX as it relates to Roman Catholics, to their connection with a satanic black mass, to a registered sex offender. What a peregrination. Is it possible to put this meandering to rest and get back to Sacred Music?
    Thanked by 2kenstb tomjaw
  • Adam Wood, thanks for posting the link to Thomas Aquinas' "Commentary on the Book of Job." I scanned a bit of it, and will definitely read the whole thing.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,350
    Adam Wood, thanks for posting the link to Thomas Aquinas' "Commentary on the Book of Job." I scanned a bit of it, and will definitely read the whole thing.


    It's really quite something. Apparently Gregory the Great also wrote one, which I intend to read after I've finished Aquinas'.
  • Darn, this is good!
    http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/9de42ffe27b1486cba1d43dad81de5ad-271.html
    No toothless old lady here, Charles. Her message is delivered with all the clarity of a battle trumpet. This is what is attracting new membership to SSPX. We could certainly benefit from their presence amongst us, rather than as a parallel church.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,510
    Probably could. Instead, we will go try to dialog with the Satanists and maybe break some bread with them, or some nonsense like that. LOL.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,438
    My apologies for popping up and for further extending this thread. However, since it has reached this strange juxtaposition between the SSPX and the Black Mass at Oklahoma City, how could I resist adding this video which shows the SSPX's edifying response to this sacrilegious event? A Solemn High Mass was offered in a hotel in Oklahoma City followed by a procession of 900 people from surrounding states to the Civic Center where they said the Rosary. If that is not reason enough to bring this up, the young priest presiding over the event looks like Adam Wood. : )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo9q-dt7Bo8&feature=youtu.be
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,350
    the young priest presiding over the event looks like Adam Wood. : )


    He's a little handsomer than me. Must be all that clean livin'.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,596
    And he's not sideways.