How to eliminate guitar groups from a church....
  • Move into a church with 7.5 seconds reverberation....

    It makes singing up tempo popular music style songs impossible.

    Many of the musica problems that we face are created by the buildings that have been forced upon us.
  • I should verify this on the basis of a call I experienced yesterday from the leader of the local guitar group in which he confirmed what I told him 2 years ago about the new building.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Noel, but then they're going to demand carpeting to enhance the music...
  • interesting! so the argument over acoustics might mask a fundamental issue.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I wish we could. Then what do we do with the churches that don't look like a church and don't 'sound' like a church. I'm sure there are so many. Should we abandon them? (Ours is one of them. And we don't have much money to improve or move the church. I told our pastor that the carpet is such a trouble for many reasons. But the floor under the carpet is just cement and cannot do much about it without major reconstruction. Oh, there are also matching cushions on the pews and kneelers.)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Christ is born!

    I suspect when the liturgy finally becomes decent, some churches will be "left behind". So many congregations just want to be entertained, and will run out any musician, priest, bishop who says otherwise. And some buildings are just unusable for a Catholic Mass. It's sad, but a lot of chaff will have to burn if the state of the liturgy will improve.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Christ is born!

    I have the solution: digital effects. Just have everyone sing into a microphone connected to a sophisticated reverb unit and blast the results from speakers. Instant monastery! Of course, everyone not singing into a microphone will sound like crap, but hey, they're only important in some abstract, juridical sense. And anyway, the singers using microphones don't need to sing well, anyway, because the microphone prevents them from projecting their voices normally. So everyone will sing badly, and none of it will sound good!

    Wait a minute...

    Better just tear out the carpet and stain the concrete. Big difference for little money, and everyone will sing easier.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    "the singers using microphones don't need to sing well, anyway, because the microphone prevents them from projecting their voices normally. So everyone will sing badly, and none of it will sound good!"

    That's what exactly our youth director does. Use very sophisticated sound system. The youth don't really have to "sing." Don't need any proper singing training either. The sound system does eveything for them. He also has nifty background music recorded to accompany their singing. Once in a while you just hear one voice screeching out if the microphone is not positioned well. Oh, well. (makes me wonder how they actually sound like without a microphone, if we don't have power or something. Reminds me of the midnight Mass when we had our power out. Exactly at 0 o'clock on 1/1/08. Our priest was finishing up the last prayer after the adoration. I had to look at the watch. the Mass might start a bit late. I was ready to turn on the organ. Dark! It was awesome. We put out all the candles we had in the church, but still pretty dark, and the whole congregation sang without canor, no microphone, no organ. We just sang hymns that we know by heart. It was lovely. The power came back right after the Mass. So people can leave the church safely. It was very strange. Is God telling us something? )
    The youth director also recommends that I use 'cathedral sound' button for our chant schola. Sorry, but we don't go up on the stage. We sing from the back pews, and that will be the last thinkg I would do with my schola.
  • Bummer about the 'stage' at your church, Mia. So many of the newer churches are built with the idea of having the choir up in the front of the church. Often it is the only place. Our little humble church doesn't have a 'back of the church choir loft' option for us, so we are more or less forced to be to one side of the altar in the front of the church. We do have overhead microphones, but they are fairly unobtrusive. I'd like it better if the church had naturally good acoustics and we could abandon the sound system altogether, but the church layout doesn't really work for that. I guess we have to do the best we can with what is available and hope it is enough.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Christus est natus!

    The church I went to for the past year had the choir squeezed in one one side of the altar, which is one reason I quit the choir there (as I woman, I don't want to be standing in the sanctuary... even though it's not like you can tell where the sanctuary ends and the nave begins anyway). As the choir got bigger and bigger, they began encroaching on the altar, and in a picture of the consecration of a new altar in our church, you can see a lone djembe player sitting basically behind the thing, right next to the high altar and tabernacle.

    We had a choir loft, but they converted it to seating a long time ago. We already have four Masses on Sunday that fill up all the pews. (Which I guess is a good thing overall. More people at Mass. But if we could retain the proper solemnity and reverence of the Mass, people would condescend to stand out the door all the way into the street just to partake of the Divine Mysteries. Now they leave if they don't get a seat--so I'm not sure what to think, exactly...)

    So here is my solution: cruciform buildings! Stick the choir in one side of the bar of the cross outta everyone's way, and outta the sanctuary! A newly built Catholic Church up here is actually cruciform and does just that, which is fabulous, even if the choir they put there does weird stuff sometimes. Some old nasty buildings, as long as they're square or rectangular you should be able to knock out two walls and extend 'em, right?
  • I have heard increasing evidence that carpet in churches is detrimental to the health of those with allergies...
  • As far as carpet....Italian and Spanish marble, chosen on site for the church, has eliminated any talk of carpet.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Glorify Him!

    Mia, you should inform your youth director (and, if no change happens, priest and bishop) that recorded music is illicit in Catholic worship. I would even say this is a very progressive/pastoral/liberal/happy-feelly sentiment: let the people of God make the music, not a recording. That's something that should be immediately corrected, and if it means they can't play American Idol, what a shame!
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    What? And prevent industry insiders from making a profit on SacroKaraoke? Perish the thought!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Janet, I agree. We have to do our best with what we've got, wherever and in whatever condition we are. I sometimes feel like I want to find a church where I can hear real sacred music with heavenly echoes. But I decided to stay here for a while and still sing chants as much as I can. Sometimes I feel bad for my schola people who work so hard, and it's very hard to sing here without good accoustics. They would have sounded much better. But they still love chants and they want to sing. So I'm going to stick around, and be thankful for what we have. And I know something good will come out of all this, and it already did.