For newcomers...first steps in returning Latin to the Mass.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    A recurring theme has been "what do I do first?" at Mass to introduce Latin.

    My own experience was that Benedict's brother started by singing a Latin Agnus Dei when the priest received Communion.

    Eventually, after many repetitions, that then became the congregation's Lamb of God.

    This worked for us. Then, a small group began singing the Communio while the Priest and then the choir received.

    The simple Mass was the choice for the Agnus Dei. Today I would do it differently. Since the simple Latin Mass also served as the Requiem Mass with a change in the last Agnus Dei, it created confusion at a Latin Mass (EF) when the congregation sang both versions at the same time.

    I'd pick a different one for this reason.

    Making CD's for choir members (and any congregation members who approach you) helps them a lot. And calms then in traffic.

    Having only a small group from the choir sing the Communio has the effect of doing what is right liturgically, gives those in the choir who are solidly behind this an opportunity to sing (in our case it was three members who had been to Auburn, AL for a conference) and let the rest of the choir receive communion and get used to the whole idea.
    Thanked by 4melofluent JulieColl Jahaza CHGiffen
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If you're doing this in the OF liturgy, it would probably be best to stick to Kyrie XVI, Gloria XV and the Sanctus and Agnus Dei from Mass XVIII, as these are the chants that the ICEL English Chant Mass were based upon.

    The next would be to chant Credo I and the Pater Noster. You will find that the AECL Chant tone (Australian) English chant Out Father more closely resembles the original latin chant.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    it would probably be best to stick to Kyrie XVI, Gloria XV and the Sanctus and Agnus Dei from Mass XVIII, as these are the chants that the ICEL English Chant Mass were based upon.

    That they are the same as the chants of the ICEL English chant Mass would strike me as another reason (added to Noel's above about the requiem) NOT to use those.

    Similar, but different chants can make learning more difficult.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I totally recommend the readership to Peter Kwasniewski's latest article at CCW, found here

    http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2014/jun/5/what-ordinary-form-could-be-vienna-oratory/

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    We sing several verses of the Communio at our EF Missa Cantata and continue until the distribution of Communion is ended, and then we sing a brief meditative motet or hymn. Most of the Communio's from the GR are eminently singable, and the texts are very beautiful.

    Dom Johner has said of them

    there are many which surpass the Introit in richness of melody, and others which are sung in extended responsorial form at the Night Office.


    I always include the music in our handouts and encourage the people to sing them since the antiphon is repeated several times.

    The Communio for Pentecost, Factus est repente, is just glorious. From Dom Johner:

    In most Masses the Ite missa est harkens back to the melody of the Kyrie. In a similar way this Communon reminds us of the festive enthusiasm of the Introit. With striking clearness it portrays in the first phrase the sudden coming of the Holy Ghost. One seems actually to hear the mighty wind in the recurring fifths and the ascent to f with its interval of a fourth. That is word-painting which, although it urges us violently along, is nevertheless enjoyable. In spite of all His might and power, the Spirit who comes is the Spirit of order, of life and of love.


    Thanked by 2David Sullivan CHGiffen
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I agree that the Agnus Dei is the first place to introduce Latin.

    I've also found that many of the Agnus Dei chant settings are QUITE accessible compared to the settings of other pieces of the Ordinary.

    Our congregation sings chanted Agnus Dei settings throughout the year, and all were almost instantly picked up. The Advent/Lent Agnus Dei is particularly beautiful, and is sung heartily by the congregation.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    So true, PGA, @ the Agnus Dei settings in the Kyriale. I'm very fond of Mass II, V, and VII and am always amazed at how fresh and contemporary they sound, and the Agnus Dei's are particularly evocative.

    We're singing Mass V now, and my husband says you could easily dance to the melody of the Kyrie and the Gloria (not that I'm promoting liturgical dance by any means!) but it has a definite swing and even a tambourine might not be amiss. : )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa4rXTZAD58&list=RDxa4rXTZAD58#t=11
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Are you using this in the Ordinary Form?
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    No, for the EF, but these Masses (II, V and VII) in particular, might lend themselves very well to the OF. Actually, that's why I like them because they sound contemporary. I also like Du Mont's Messe Royale which I imagine would be wonderful at an OF Mass. It's very simple but so beautiful and lyrical.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Be careful, especially in the OF, when choosing which ordinaries to do. You may be stuck with Mass XVIII for the rest of your life. Maybe I'm just jaded, but it weareth thin after 20 years of daily use.

    I personally like Agnus ad Lib II. It is very simple, but I think it is more interesting and wears better than Agnus XVIII, probably because of the semitones.

    http://www.institute-christ-king.org/uploads/music/Kyriale/AgnusDei2_94_lgF6.pdf
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    I think the Mode I Gloria XIII could be popular in many OF Communities. If sung at a very quick speed, it is very short, it has no great melismata that could cause confusion, it can be accompanied very beautifully, and could be intoned by a priest of mild/moderate musical abilities.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Yes, tempo and rhythm matter a great deal with chant. Those little itty bitty ictus marks are the key.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Kyrie V is a very beautiful setting. And congregations pick it up quickly! Good call.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Thanks, Matthewj, for suggesting Mass XIII. I've been looking for a new Mass setting after we learn Mass VI. So many treasures in the Kyriale. Each Mass we learn is such a revelation. I marvel at how expressive and pertinent each new melody is. They just resonate deep within one's heart and soul.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
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