Immaculate Conception: What Did You Hear Today?
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Our schola will sing the Holy Mass in the ordinary form today (5 pm), with Mass XVII (Kyrie C), Gloria VIII, and the propers with a few adjustments. We would have liked to sing Mass IX, but there isn't time to prepare it this year.

    The chants for this Solemnity are really wonderful. Adjustments regarding the propers are minor:

    - Introit, sing antiphon, verse, GP (no repeat antiphon).
    - Sing a triple Alleluia with the congregation from the Simplex in Mode 1. Happily, there is one in this mode for an Advent Mass setting. Then the schola will sing the verse, and everyone will sing the Alleluia again.

    "Gloriosa" is an absolutely lovely communio. Many thanks to Richard Rice for setting the Communion verses.

    After the Mass, the congregation will sing "O Sanctissima."

    Booklet PDF below. No frills. This was printed front and back and folded. We know the Ordinary and Gloria VIII, so these weren't included to save space.
  • It was a spoken Mass, no music. Beautiful in many ways. So much better than most Masses with music.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    This was the 7 a.m. "early bird special." Some very excellent organ for the prelude, offertory, and recessional - all coming from Marian melodies. Entrance hymn - Immaculate Mary. Responsorial - spoken. OK because everyone will sing it. At Communion, Eat This Bread by Berthier. Not OK because the cantor was consistently a quarter to half step flat, despite the organ, and simply didn't know the last verse.

    I'd sung the propers to myself at home before Mass.

    Looking forward to seeing Pes' booklet.
  • Our Schola sang last evening's antipatory's our line-up:
    Introit (Gaudens gaudebo)
    Kyrie IX
    Gloria VIII
    Offertory: Ave Maria chant followed by Archadelt's polyphonic setting of the same
    Sanctus IX
    Agnus Dei IX
    Communion: Communio(Gloriosa); O Sanctissma hymn; Alma Redemptoris Mater (Palestrina); Ave Maris Stella chant
    Recessional: Immaculate Mary hymn
  • Pes
    Posts: 623


    Is there a good mostly-syllabic Credo in English anywhere?
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Thanks, J.

    By the way, a noon Mass I attended had only two pieces of music: "Sing of Mary" for entrance and "OCOCE" for exit, both a cappella and led by the celebrant. OF.
  • Entrance: Sing of Mary
    Psalm: Psalm 98 from the 1984 People's Mass Book by WLP, chant tone verses
    Communion: Magnificat by James Chepponis - a lovely setting by GIA with a great organ accomp.
    Recessional: Virgin full of Grace

    Mass Parts: Mass of Creation (universally known for all the visitors. On the organ it's not even so bad)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,182
    At St Therese Chapel, Peabody, MA, in the basement of the North Shore Mall, there was a full house at noon. The musician put the "organ" on its "piano" setting and played "Immaculate Mary" and "O sanctissima" (sung solo).

    Holy: from Vermulst, I think; way too fast for me to keep up.
    Agnus Dei: from Mass XVIII.
    He switched back to organ for "Sing we of the Blessed Mother" (on Hyfrydol).
  • The propers for this feast are all 20th century (or late 19th century) adaptations by Joseph Pothier. Gaudens gaudebo is adapted from Vocem jucunditatis (Easter V). I can't immediately recall the sources of the other. These are, by and large, examples of good adaptations--not at all "literal."
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    The propers for this feast are all 20th century (or late 19th century) adaptations by Joseph Pothier.

    Now that's what I call "organic development." Excellent to hear this!
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    At our Cathedral 12:10 Mass:

    Prelude: Alma Redemptoris Mater (men. chant)
    Ave Maria (men. chant)

    Procession: Immaculate Mary (all)

    Gifts: Ave, Maria (choir. Victoria)
    O Sanctissima (all)

    Communion: Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silent (all)
    The Hail Mary (choir. Marchionda)

    Recession: Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above (all)
  • henry
    Posts: 242
    Children's Choir sang the following:

    E: Tota Pulchra es Maria (Graduale Simplex)
    Psalm: Proper (Worship #1060)
    O: Ave Maria (Caccini)
    C: You are the Honor (Deiss)
    R: Immaculate Mary
  • Our Parochial School Mass:
    Opening Rites: Kyrie/Glory from "New Danish Amen Mass" (my own setting)
    Psalm: OCP R&A (one of Alstott's weakest, cannot recall it from the past)
    Gosp.Acc.: "New Danish Amen Mass"
    Offertory: HOLY IS HIS NAME (Talbot)
    Euch.Acc./LoG: "New Danish Amen Mass"
    Comm.: SERVANT SONG (McCargill)
    AVE MARIA plainsong in Latin, then English
    Dism. SING OF MARY
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Ordinary Form, English, 7 pm

    Prelude: Ave Maria: Guilmant
    "Offertoire pour la fete de l'Annonciation, ou autres fetes de la Ste Vierge" (L'organiste Liturgique/Liturgiste, book 1) (pp 9-11) (complete)

    Processional Hymn: Immaculate Mary
    Kyrie: Mass XVII C
    Gloria: Mass VIII
    Responsorial: Guimont
    Gospel Acclamation: Cantors Book of Gospel Acclamations VII (Haugen "Mass of Remembrance")
    Offertory: Ave Maria: Josquin
    Sanctus: Mass XVII
    Agnus Dei: Mass XVII
    Communion: Gregorian Missal
    Communion Hymn: O Sanctissima
    Final Hymn: Sing Of Mary Meek And Lowly

    Postlude: Ave Maris Stella: Guilmant
    "Offertoire sur un chant de l'hymne Ave Maris Stella" (L'Organiste Liturgique/Liturgiste, book 2) (pp 1-6) (beginning)
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I just came back from the Mass where our schola sang some Ordinary parts and a few Gregorian Marian hymns. It was very interesting that the MD, who wasn't present, put us with a pianist, who didn't even open the organ, and "Halle, Halle, Halle." with clapping and hand motions. But the pianist and the cantor seemed to be very impressed with our schola singing and a few people came up and told us how beautiful our singing was. This is a parish almost eveything is Haas, and it's an improvement that they let us sing Sanctus in Latin, although they still don't want to have us sing Gloria, becuase it should be sung by all the congregation and they cannot sing it in Latin. (sigh...) We have a long way to go.
  • My choir was supposed to sing a superb new setting of Tota pulchra es by our composer-in-residence.
    One of the crucial singers didn't show and didn't contact anyone.
    Anyone want a DoM job in the DC suburbs?
  • 10:30 AM, Extraordinary Form Missa Cantata, St. Matthew's, Dix Hills, N.Y. (main church)

    Ordinary: Mass IX (K,S,A); Mass VIII (G); Credo III
    Propers: Gregorian; two Magnificat verses between repetitions of the communion antiphon Gloriosa (thanks, RR)
    Extras: Ave Maria (Arcadelt) @ offertory; O Sanctissima @ communion; Ave Maris Stella (mode I) & Es ist ein ros entsprungen after Mass.

    (The parish has scheduled all future holyday EF Masses at 10:30 in the main church, starting today.)

    6:15 PM, Extraordinary Form Missa Cantata, Church of the Holy Innocents, Midtown Manhattan, N.Y.

    Ordinary: Mass IX (K,S,A); Ambrosian Gloria; Credo III
    Propers: Gregorian; two Magnificat verses between repetitions of the communion antiphon Gloriosa (again, thanks RR)
    Extras: Tota pulchra es, Maria (Mode V, Pothier) @ offertory; another Marian hymn after the Communion antiphon + verses; Salve Regina, tonus simplex after Mass.
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    St Aloysius' Melbourne, Australia EF

    Ordinary - Mass X (Alme Pater)
    Propers - Gregorian
    Offertory motet: O Sanctissima
    Communion motet: Trahe Me Post Te (Victoria) (SAATTB)
    Recessional: O Purest of Creatures

    Hugh Henry
  • Our Lady of Walsingham (AU) - Houston

    Processional - Ye who own the faith of Jesus --- "Denn des Vaters..."
    Propers - Anglican Use Gradual --- Tones VII, VI, II, I
    Gradual Psalm: 98 --- Anglican Chant, T. Norris
    Ordinary - "Cum jubilo'"(in English) --- Modes I, V, V
    Gloria --- Old Scottish Chant
    Offertory Anthem - Magnificat --- H. Willan
    Communion Hymn - Sing of Mary, pure and holy --- "Pleading Saviour"
    Hymn at the Dismissal - Sing We of the Blessed Mother --- "Abbot's Leigh"
    Organ Voluntary - Basse et dessus de trompette --- M. Corette

    Daniel Bennett Page - are you serious about an opening in Washington? If so, e-mail me details.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    Our Lady of the Mountains - Jackson, Wyoming (advent of a budding music program, or, in other words, Lo, How a Rose 'ere Blooming)

    Processional - Salve Regina (debut of the Schola Cantorum) [a cappella]
    Opening Hymn - Immaculate Mary
    Offertory Anthem - Star Above the Ocean (premier of original composition and debut of the Elementary Youth Choir) []
    Communion Hymn - O Sanctissima (in English, then in Latin)
    Communion Anthem - Ave Maria (Schola Cantorum) [a cappella]
    Recessional - Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above
  • cre
    Posts: 3
    At Mater Ecclesiae RC Church, Berlin, NJ last night:

    Mass Setting: Missa de Beata Virgine (Cristobal de Morales)
    Processional: Daily, Daily, Sing to Mary
    Introit: Gaudens Gaudebo
    Gradual: Benedicta es tu
    Alleluia: Tota pulchra es Maria
    Offertory: Ave Maria
    Chant: Virgo Dei Genitrix, mode 2
    Communio: Gloriosa dicta sunt
    Motet: Alma Redemptoris Mater (Palestrina)
    Recessional Hymns: Alma Redemptoris Mater, simple tone, mode 5
    Immaculate Mary
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,039
    Extraordinary Form Mass at Immaculate Conception Church, Fitchburg, MA

    Mass Setting: Mass for 3 Voices (Claudio Casciolini) - except for Gloria (Mass VIII) and Credo III
    Introit: Gaudens Gaudebo
    Gradual: Benedicta es tu
    Alleluia: Tota pulchra es Maria
    Offertory: Ave Maria
    Motet at Offertory: Ave Maria (Arcadelt)
    Communio: Gloriosa dicta sunt
    Motet: Alma Redemptoris Mater (Palestrina)
    Recessional Hymn: Immaculate Mary

    I wanted to sing the verses at the Communion, but I couldn't get around to rehearsing it.

    Hopefully this will be the start of regular EF masses at the church.

    Sam Schmitt
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    francis - what a beautiful debut piece for the children's choir!
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Francis, I agree with priorstf. That is excellent work! I especially like the f-natural in bar twelve (in bass) and that c-natural rubbing against the soprano's d. Were you thinking Dm7 in first inversion there as helping the ensuing V6-4 chord prolong the V? Nice.

    /very much a student
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    Feast of the Immaculate Conception 10 AM Monday 8 December 2008
    Extraordinary Form Mass at Holy Rosary Chapel at St. Vincent's, San Rafael, Ca

    Prelude: Alma Redemptoris Mater (Simple Chant)
    Processional: Immaculate Mary (Congregation Hymn)
    Introit: Gaudens Gaudebo
    Kyrie: Mass IX (Cum jubilo)
    Gloria: Mass VIII (De Angelis)
    Gradual/Alleluia: Rossini Psalm Tones
    Credo: Credo III
    Offertory: Ave Maria
    Motet: Ave Vera Virginitas (Josquin des Pres)
    Sanctus: Mass IX (Cum jubilo)
    Post Elevation: Organ Improvisaton (O Salutaris & Ave Maria Stella)
    Agnus Dei: Mass IX (Cum jubilo)
    Communion: Gloriosa dicta sunt (with Psalm Verses from Rice Communio)
    Recessional: Hail Holy Queen (Congregation Hymn)
    Organ Postlude: Buxtehude: Toccata in G Major, BuxWV 164

    The Mass was sung a capella by the Men's Schola with a soprano for the ordinary & motet. Hymns with organ.

    Janice Clark, Music Director
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Pes - You are sometimes a mindreader. As I listened to this I was thinking what a wonderful tool it might be in the children's classroom for a discussion on music theory!
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Prior, definitely. Francis handles all the voice-leading expertly. I like the b-natural passing tone in bar four, too.

    Can you tell me what's up with that chord on "of" in bar nine? It's magical. E minor with an added ninth and suspended fourth? That would explain its function in leading toward the cadence to D minor in 10.

    Francis, could you describe the harmony in bars 9-10 in functional terms?

    And just so this thread doesn't veer off completely, I'd like to comment that "Star Above the Ocean" is in the same universe as "O Sanctissima" but has richer harmonies. It's also just as memorable.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I would suspect that chord to be a mistake. The rest makes sense, but that one doesn't. It does sound nice, but there's no parallel in the rest of the hymn. I disagree with Pes - this is light years ahead of O Sanctissima. This is what Marian devotion should sound like.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    "Star above the Ocean" is delightful. I haven't seen a new Marian hymn I liked much in ages. Now all I need is a 3-4 part arrangement for women's voices a cappella. Francis - can we talk?
  • Pes
    Posts: 623

    I simply meant to imply that "Star" sounds comfortable in a liturgy with "OS." It is better, musically.

    I love that chord and I'm not giving it up! LOL You could say that it makes sense in the context of a phrase that has a half-diminished chord in it. There's a lot more color in that phrase. The m9 chord doesn't stick out. Plus, the alto gets a really nice line out of it. Please let it stay?

  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    mjb - Why not just try it as written a cappella? I'd hate to see 3-part if it misses some of the chord structure. And if there's a problem with folks learning another clef, get over it! ;) (I'm joking, but have actually had women comment that they don't do bass clef!) It's actually a simple enough piece that you could even rotate who sings which line and get some fascinating variations on the sound. Record and play them back and your choir can have fun with it.
  • No, just frustration with how fragile choirs can be.
    Church jobs in the DC area that are worth having rarely go 'on the market'.
    And while the overall level of music in the Archdiocese of Washington is not horribly low, everything is mostly clumped around a very dull, thoughtless middle of GIA/OCP music. I know of no parish which uses the Saint Michael or the Adoremus Hymnal. Chant is only sung in a few places. It's far better than the Archdiocese of Baltimore liturgically, but that is not a true compliment! The papal stadium Mass said it all.
  • soli
    Posts: 95
    Processional: The Angel Gabriel
    Mass setting: Jubilate Deo
    Psalm: to Tone IV
    Comunion: Gloriosa (chant) - antiphon only and then silence
    Recessional: Immaculate Mary
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I'm new here! This is my first post. So, hello, and all that.

    At my church, this is what the Immaculate Conception sounded like:

    Introit: Immaculate Mary

    Mass setting:, our liturgy director wrote all the Mass parts (ordinaries) to the tune of "Veni veni Emmanuel."

    Responsorial Psalm: the one from the missal to a tune our liturgy director wrote, I bet you anything

    Communion: all I can remember is a song where the chorus was like, "ave marialleluia." When it was announced, we were told that we were going to sing the "Ave Maria," and I was excited, because I like chant. But it was not chant. Also, I remember hearing something said, like, "we're going to sing the first verse in Latin," but then the choir started singing "open my eyes Lord..." and I was heartily confused.

    Recessional: "Canticle of the Turning." Accompanied by a lot of djembe.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    A quick explanation of SATO:

    measure 9
    The word 'of' is technically an E half diminished 11 (with a delayed resolution [displacement] to the Bb in the tenor line, which creates the tension and then the release.) The F is left out because it is forced to linger in your mind from the two previous (alto) F's just before the occurring chord. (Try playing the entire chord and you will see the logic: a stack of 3rds: e,g,Bb,d,f,a) Leaving out the Bb in the chord itself gives one a sense of wanting, emptiness, and almost despair. The descending D (alto) drives hard to the chromatic interval of the C# in beat 4. Then by delaying the appearance of the resolving D which you are totally expecting on beat one, it appears on beat 2. You are thrown off balance again.

    measure 12
    the third beat - by dropping the bass down to the F, you create an F Major 9th chord. The drop is a P5, and because it is in the bass, it provides a significant harmonic anchor. I was able to eliminate the A, again, because it is imaged into your mind in the tenor line both before and after the chord itself.

    trick of off-balance
    There is a hidden psychological trick that gives this piece an even greater sense of being off-balance. It is the constant toggling in the bass line between measure 2 and 12. They both contain the descending F (p5), but the first one occurs on the fourth beat and the second one on the third beat. The "trick" occurs only in singing more than one verse. The mind hears these two measures as 12 and 16, not 2 and 12. This is what erases the sense of a beginning and ending of a single verse. Off balance once again.

    harmonic displacement
    The best word for this technique is "harmonic displacement". It is simply a shifting of the "proper" harmonic spelling of a particular chord to a beat, two beats or even a measure before or after it is "supposed" to occur. It is a kind of tricking the mind to go "Wait a minute! What was that!" Bach did this all the time. If you analyze his harmonic progressions, especially in works like 'Die Kunst Der Fuge', or his 'Musical Offering' (see Ricercare a 6), the melody and the harmony are constantly pushing and pulling each other along. Many times it is hard to decide which is more important at any particular moment... the shape of each single contrapuntal line or the harmonic structure those individual lines are striving to conceive.

    tone-painting and ethos
    Under all the theory, though, the most important part is the ethos of the work. This happens in the tone-painting. In this piece one might experience the harmony struggling to remain afloat on a sea of musical waves. The Bass line throughout is totally solid and predictable and represents the fixed and dependable 'light of the star', however, right where we least expect it - not in the soprano, but in the bass. So is Mary, who is much more than a distant light which we struggle to see. She is more like the one that provides the solidity of faith and gives us sure footing above which the waves of our life are constantly pitching and rolling.
  • Heard last night at St. Rose de Viterbo, Longview, WA, 7:00

    Kyrie XVI
    Gloria VIII
    Credo III
    Sanctus XVIII
    Agnus Dei XVIII

    This is only our second Missa Cantata, and we went to the time, $ and trouble to print up the books for Ordinary Time for our first sung Mass, and didn't want to do another set of printing for the for the Advent/Lent settings (will do for Advent though). Plus we didn't want to spring yet another new thing on the congregation, hence the ordinary time settings.

    I: Gaudens Gaudebo
    G: Benedicta es tu
    A: Tota pulchra es
    O: Ave maria mode VIII
    C: Gloriosa dicta sunt
    C2: Victoria "Ave Maria"

    the Gradual and Offertory were pretty challenging for us. The introit was moderately tough too, at least for us greenhorns. I was cantor, and sang the readings in English, and after Mass I was completely exhausted. This is easily the hardest most challenging music I've ever done, but I really feel like I'm giving my best to God in so doing.

    Anyhow, that's what happened last night in little old Longview.
  • Jumping in kind of late. Not much decent music for Mass, but our schola sang (sorry I didn't realize until too late that Advent superceded it) First Vespers in the Traditional Roman Office on Sunday night. Although rubrically incorrect, the chants were quite nice and the congregation very appreciative. We had about 90 in attendance. We had 3 priests and the celebrant sported a beautiful blue-lined cope that was once donated to Cardinal Mahoney. I was just told that it was "borrowed" for the event! The schola was 10 women and six men singing in alternatim with occasional organ support. Our organist played the Suite medieval for the processions (nice and loud!). Best of all, the talented Jenny Donelson sat in with the ladies!
  • I was blessed with the opportunity to sing with a five-person schola last night instead of playing at my church. It was lovely:

    Our Lady of the Assumption
    Monday 8 December 2008 @ 7:00pm, Novus Ordo

    Prelude: Improvisations on "Inviolata", "Ave Maria"
    Introit: Gaudens Gaudebo
    Kyrie IX
    Gloria IX
    Gradual: Benedicta es tu
    Alleluia: Tota pulchra es
    Credo III
    Offertory: Ave maria
    Sanctus IX
    Agnus Dei IX
    Communion: Gloriosa dicta sunt
    Recessional: Improvisation on "Salve Regina"

    It felt so good to sing Mass IX (the Gloria was absolutely thrilling and sent chills down my spine); next step is to get my group to learn Duruflé's version and find a church with a good organ!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    francis, thanks for the quick explanation of SATO. IT's amazing to know how the composer think like that. Do you plan to do it this way when you compose a music or it just happen and find out later?
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Jam - Welcome aboard. Your parish sounds like a place of variety. Can't complain. At least you could understand the words. Maybe it's even just a case that your Latin has gotten so good you understood it just as if it were really in the vernacular itself! :)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709

    I am always composing with harmonic displacement. I commented about this also on another piece on this board. It is here:

    Here I refer to it as a delayed suspension.

    Many times I am aware of tone-painting, but the ethos is something that occurs on a whole different level apart from intellect or logic.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thank you, it's very fascinating to see how composers' mind work. (Since I don't have that talent.) At any rate, this kind of explanantion really helps me to appreciate the music. I didn't appreciate music theory class in college, but now I understand why we had to study it so much.