Healey Willan's Missa de Sancta Maria Magdalena
  • SteveBosworth
    Posts: 34
    Have any of you used the revised version of this? It was revised by a priest from St. John Cantius in Chicago in collaboration with Healey Willan's daughter. It's one of my favorites and a "war horse" in the Episcopal church. I would love to use it at my parish. I'm very interested in your thoughts and comments.
  • Unda_Maris
    Posts: 53
    Steve, I'm unfamiliar with the revised version of this Willan Mass. I sing in an Episcopal church, and we use the setting in the 1982 Hymnal---which I assume is not the revised version. It's definitely a "war horse" in the Episcopal church, as is a number of Willan's choral and organ music. We sing 6 mass settings from the "1982", and my favorite of all is the Mass by W. Mathias. If you can get your congregation (or have already) to move beyond the Vermulst, Haugen, Proulx, Olstott mass settings, you'd do yourself, and your congregation a big favor to learn the Willan Mass. Good luck! and best wishes! :)
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    What does 'revised' mean in this regard? Does it mean that it is adjusted to fit the Catholic translation? Or what?

    Here is another kudo for the above-mentioned Mathias setting in the 1982! It is an excellent example of something modern (and not at all difficult) as opposed to contemptably 'contemporary'.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    The sheet music, adapted for the new Roman Missal text, is offered for sale at the Cantius Web Store:
    http://birettabooks.com/go/webstore/product/missa_de_sancta_maria_magdalena/

    Also, the Cantius fathers are now entrusted with the musical estate of Healey Willan: http://www.canons-regular.org/go/healeywillansociety/
    Thanked by 3R J Stove Mark Husey marymezzo
  • R J StoveR J Stove
    Posts: 302
    Had never even known of this Mass setting before I saw this thread, much less been familiar with how it sounds. But Willan's music for solo organ is in my experience unfailingly fine, though all too few of my fellow Australians have encountered it. (If anything, they tend to be even more clueless about Canadian culture than about culture in the States.)
  • Unda_Maris
    Posts: 53
    When it comes to organ music in the Episcopal and Roman churches, there was an old adage from my younger years: The Episcopal organists play Healy Willan, and the Catholic organists play Flor Peeters. I think that the Episcopal-Willan adage still holds true. Regrettably, Peeters' organ music seems to have "passed away" save his "Thirty-Five Miniatures" for organ. Most of his mass settings are out of print, except for his "Jubilee Mass", "Mass to Honor St. Joseph" and "Missa Festiva". Luckily much of his organ music remains available, and his chorale preludes on Gregorian hymns are worth the effort to learn. Peeters love of Gregorian chant and modality are prominent in his choral and organ works. He was known for his organ improvisations at Sunday mass on the chant themes of the day. Peeters, Tournemire and Langlais are the great losses to the Roman church. Hopefully the pendulum will swing again in their direction at some point.
  • cantorconvert
    Posts: 79
    We purchased the revised Willan mass from St. John Cantius. I have yet to teach it to the congregation/choir, but hope to this summer or fall. Fr. Haynes, who revised the mass, is working with us on creating scores that we can print in our worship aid.
    The revised mass appears to preserve intact Willan's music, it is more a redistributing of the melody to fit the current ICEL text.
    As far as the music, it is excellent: lovely, singable melodies and interesting harmonies, all with the touch of a master craftsman. Eminently congregational, yet noble and profound at the same time.
  • R J StoveR J Stove
    Posts: 302
    Looks as if Willan and my fave post-1945 novelist (from any land), namely the great Robertson Davies, might have known each other in Toronto. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

    http://wikimapia.org/8188870/Church-of-St-Mary-Magdalene
  • SteveBosworth
    Posts: 34
    cantorconvert: I ordered it from Biretta several months ago and couldn't wait to see how it was modified. While they are no major changes, I still had to be careful when I was playing it. I have the original memorized from my Anglican days....35 years ago!

    I originally wanted to introduce this during Advent however, I'm still waiting to hear from Fr. Haynes, so we can use the mass in our worship aids also. I hope we can start learning it in the Summer.

    I was able to introduce a new Mass setting by Kevin Kiel, "Mass of St. Francis Cabrini", when we changed to the new ICEL texts. While a huge improvement from the Alstott "Heritage" mass, (they've used it for 30+ years!) it's time to move on to the Willan. I'd like to see that one stay around for 30 years!

    I haven't seen the Mathias setting, but will try to find a score. Thanks everyone for your input.
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    Thanked by 1G
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    Good music! But! Why, instead of seeing the choir, the church, and the organ, are we presented with these cretinesqu light shows which don't seem to have any relationship to the music? They are boring to watch and are have not the remotest bearing, rhythmic, pictorial, or thematic, to the music which they rather trash

    This sort of presentation accompanies much of the music on the Forum. We should be able to assume that musical presentations here will be of impeccable taste and sense.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    MJO, if there's any light show with that mp3, it's produced by the audio player on your own PC. The mp3 file is only an audio file with no video content. If you don't want the "visualization" produced by the audio player, you can turn that off locally.
    Thanked by 2mrcopper M. Jackson Osborn
  • SteveBosworth
    Posts: 34
    Thanks, ScottK....very nice!
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Is there a way to see snippets of the music or congregational parts?
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,045
    We used to use this at St. James Anglican Catholic. The whole thing is congregational. You can see the first page of the old version here, and there are YouTubes.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    The music is the same as the "Second Communion Service" as printed in The Hymnal 1940, ##708 – 713 (the Benedictus and Creed are omitted in the hymnal). The melody parts also appear in The Hymnal 1982 at S91, S114, and S158.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    at S91, S114, and S158.

    AAAAARGH
    Thanked by 1barreltone
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    ScottK, thanks for that recording - I was impressed with how deftly the composer avoids what a child I know insists sounds as if the whole congregation is cursing in some of the most frequently heard settings of the Gloria around these parts, (the second iteration of "Jesus Christ.")

    Save the Liturgy, save the World
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    Does anyone have experience with the Latin version of this setting? OUP apparently still prints it.
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 139
    I really don't think MSMM has every BEEN published in Latin, but I was wondering if anyone had tried the Sanctus and Agnus... the Kyrie has been rendered into Greek already.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    AAAAARGH


    Talk like a pirate day has come and gone, Adam. You must have missed it. We'll put a reminder note on the calendar for next year, ok?
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    AAAAARGH?
    I don't understand: why aaaaargh?

    Not that the 1982 can hold a candle to the 1940...
    except that the front liturgical section is an improvement,
    and there are a VERY FEW good hymns and tunes that the 1940 doesn't have;
    although this doesn't make up for the better ones that got left out,
    and the awful ones (worse than the awful ones in the 1940) that got included.

    ---

    I was not aware that the Willan had ever been published in Latin:
    Dear me!!! um, can English music and chant be put into Latin without destroying its pristine ethos??? It was, after all, conceived of with the structure and cadence of the English language in mind. (Etc., etc.) We just can't, um, uh, we just can't have this. (!)

    That said, I would be interested to see it.
    Thanked by 2Daniel Bennett Page CharlesW
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    AAAAARGH?
    I don't understand: why aaaaargh?


    A Mass setting should be found at sequential numbers in a hymnal, not smeared all over kingdom come.
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen barreltone Heath
  • cberry
    Posts: 19
    cantorconvert
    We'd be interested in knowing when the worship aid-ready copies are available. If you're able to let us know I'm sure many of us would be grateful. Thank you.
  • barreltone
    Posts: 32
    The Gloria is S202. And I also can't stand the way that the settings are all over the place in the '82.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    One of the shocking things about the 1979 Prayer Book revision is that some parts of the ordinary are made one of several optional items for their respective places in the eucharist. Gloria, for instance, may be replaced with any of several canticles or even a hymn of praise; Agnus Dei, likewise has other alternatives. It occurs to me that, perhaps, the irritating 'all over the place' arrangement in The Hymnal 1982 is reflective of this development, and that, to the editors of the hymnal, the concept of 'an ordinary' was dispensed with. Whatever the rationale (if one can attribute rationality to such thoughtless savagery) it remains an unwelcome innovation.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen barreltone
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    if one can attribute rationality to such thoughtless savagery

    One cannot.

    I really can't stand the 1982. Like any hymnal, sure, it has some good things in it (I particularly love its pairing of 'Take Up Your Cross' with the shape-note tune BOURBON).

    But for the most part I find it ridiculous and stultifying. It is neither traditional enough nor contemporary enough, neither orthodox nor progressive. It's missing key pieces of music (hello?! Come Holy Ghost?!) and is chock-full of stupid and goofy crap.

    A traditional-minded Episcopal or Anglican-use church would do much better with the 1940.

    In a more liturgically 'progressive' parish (such as the one I serve) I'd prefer to have the 1906 for the golden oldies and something like WLP's We Celebrate to fill out with the better of the newer stuff.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen barreltone
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    Willan's Missa de Sancta Maria Magdalena no longer seems to be available from Biretta Books, and I can't find Fr. Haynes' revision of it anywhere else either. Could somebody please advise?
  • davido
    Posts: 873
    Willans Missa is currently included in the Ignatius Pew Missal. That’s the only place I know of it being available.

    Frankly, the I don’t think the Haynes adaption was that smooth. The version of the Sanctus in the red Lutheran Hymnal and Service Book would better serve the NO liturgy.
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 314
    Missa de Sancta Maria Magdalena is a happy regular at our ordinariate parish Masses!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    m.r.taylor -

    Ordinariate parish???
    Which one?

    Willan's mass is sing at Walsingham on solemnities and throughout festal seasons - except for Marian solemnities, on which we sing the Englished cum jubilo as found in the back of the 1940. At other times we sing Merbecke.

    Adam's above estimation of the '82 Hymnal is priceless - though it may be too kind.

    (I have heard of a non-Ordinariate Catholic church here and there which uses the 1940.)
    Thanked by 1Patricia Cecilia
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    I take it, then, that the accompaniment would be found in the Ignatius Pew Missal Mass Ordinary accompaniment book. Does the original publisher Oxford University Press own the copyright?
  • davido
    Posts: 873
    It is found in that accompaniment book. I believe Oxford still owns the copyright.

    The original score to the mass can be found in IMSLP, only legally downloaded in Canada I think.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I just went looking for something, and it looks like the Healey Willan Society has ceased to exist. At least nothing comes up with Google.

    (Additionally, it also seems that Fr. Haynes has left SJC, and is now Associate Pastor at St. Thomas More Parish in Chicago---which would explain why Biretta books no longer sells anything of his.)
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 254
    The Willan Mass (New Roman Missal text) is one of the masses offered in the Ignatius Pew Missal.
  • kathybot
    Posts: 4
    As a new Episcopalian, I can truly say I have never heard this but I can see how it could be a giant among mass parts!
  • MaestroMark32MaestroMark32
    Posts: 66
    I have contact with Fr. Haynes. I'll see what I can find out.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • MaestroMark32MaestroMark32
    Posts: 66
    I have permission to refer any Willan customers to Fr. Scott, however, I don't feel prudent in posting his personal email publicly on the internet. Anyone who is interested can send me a private message, and I'll put you in contact with Fr. Scott.

    From Fr. Scott:
    "As trustee of the Willan Estate I can publish and distribute his works. So yes, I get contacted by churches, music stores, etc for the Willan scores. Please tell your friends to email me and I can arrange all this for them. No problem."
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen doneill
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 254
    "The Catholic Hymnal", published by Benzinger Bros in 1966 under the auspices of the Archdiocese of New York had the Willan SMM Mass adapted to the Missal text of 1965.

    Willan was still alive when this revision was done--I assume with his knowledge.

    This was an excellent hymn book. It was an honest attempt to provide worthy music for the new English Mass.

    It has a light green cover.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 254

    The adaptation to the 1965 Missal was done by Msgr Richard Curtin. The copyright was held by Benzinger Bros.
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