What is longer: A High Mass in the OF or EF?
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    If you were to have a Missa Cantata in the Ordinary Form (with Sung Canon, Propers, Creed, the whole lot), would it be longer?

    A Missa Cantata in the Extraordinary Form for us normally takes about 1hr 10mins. Out of interest, which would be quicker?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    EF is probably a little quicker, all other things being equal, but it really depends.

    Polyphonic ordinary or Chanted ordinary? Any motets that take longer than the liturgical action? Communion rail used at the OF, or normal line style? It's hard to say.

    Also, how do you define High Mass in the OF?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    All the time spent readjusting the microphone .... surely the OF is longer.

    Sung Creed in the OF? This is a theoretical, trick question, right?

    So as to be fair, we would eliminate the time for the sermon given after the Gospel... although in the EF the sermon is counted not as part of Mass, and in the OF it is. (Sermons or homilies or mini-homili-ettes are left in, as essential to the proper functioning of the options of the OF).

    For the OF -- do we need to list the times for each of the Anaphora, or is a rough approximation possible?

    Sung Confiteor and Kyrie, or troped penitential rite, with Kyrie included?

    Advent/Lent or non-Advent/Lent?




  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    A big variable in either form is also the length of the sermon or homily, and pacing of the ministers.
    Thanked by 2Ben R J Stove
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    The OF always seems longer.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    It is about the same. I find that the biggest factorsin cchanging the length of the mass are the homily and how many people are there for communion.

    It also depends on if the priest wants to add any extra greetings or explanations of things to the mass. If he just does the red and says the black then it goes quicker.

    Otherwise, you will find that mass goes longer if there is both incense and an offertory procession. Most parishes don't use incense, but I would certainly push for it at least at the main Sunday mass and especially on solemnities.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I haven't noticed much difference, unless you have the "extras" that hartleymartin mentioned above. Of course, length could depend on whether you have Fr. Pokey or Fr. Wired at the altar.
  • Ruth Lapeyre
    Posts: 341
    Having known Latin Novus Ordo with an orchestra mass and all of the chanted propers and then comparing it to EF Solemn High Mass with orchestra setting of the ordinary and with full propers I would say the EF is a little shorter, maybe 10 to 15 minutes. But as others have said it depends on how many are there and the length of the musical Mass setting.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    One thing that makes the EF go quicker are the priest(s) distributing communion at the chancel step, under one species. The average OF communion line where one person goes up to the priest, recieves, goes to the EMHC, recieves from the chalice, etc. goes much slower. At my OF parish communion is much quicker since we put the altar-rail back and most people recieve on the tongue.
    Thanked by 2BruceL Chris Allen
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 944
    I would say that since the canon is said during the Sanctus in the EF, etc., that cuts down on the length considerably. Only one thing happens at a time in the OF.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Good points about the communion procession and the sung canon. In my experience that has made the OF longer.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    I once happened to be at an EF Sung Mass with Chant Ordinary (and hymns replacing the propers, which we may do by indult); it took about 35 minutes in total. But I never saw that again, and I am happy with priests praying the Canon considerably slower.

    One point where I notice a considerable difference in length is the offertory. In the OF I usually don't need more than 2 stanzas of a suitable hymn while in the EF three stanzas are often not enough to cover the entire offering. There is no difference apart from the optional use of incense between Low and High Mass for the offertory, so this observation holds for High Mass, too.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    These days, the canon in the EF is not supposed to be said while the Sanctus is sung. However, there are certainly other points where the ordinary and proper are sung at the same time prayers are said by the celebrant.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Also, it is within the control of those in control to make things longer or shorter on any particular day. Given the asymmetric religiosociopolitics of EF vs. OF, it may not be possible to make a meaningful comparison of Mass durations without substantial adjustments.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Arthur wrote:
    These days, the canon in the EF is not supposed to be said while the Sanctus is sung.
    Is there a restriction along that line? I've been under the impression that whatever was lawful in 1962 is lawful now for EF celebrations.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Hi chonak. There is a restriction "along that line" (c.f., De musica sacra, 27e), but I'm sure you have some nuance you would like to share.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 868
    At one local church which usually has 4-5 Communion ministers, the Sung OF takes between 1:15 and 1:30. The Creed is spoken, Propers are replaced with hymns and Responsorial Psalms / plainchant Alleluia, and the Canon is spoken and usually EP II.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    [27e] During the Consecration, the singing must stop, and there should be no playing of instruments; if this has been the custom, it should be discontinued.

    Arthur, I took that to refer only the Consecration (portion of the Canon), not to the whole Canon.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Arthur, Bill,

    I think this refers to an expansive version of the French custom (which I've been encouraged to engage in) of playing the organ as "back-ground music" -- not what it's called, I'm sure, but how it strikes me, or perhaps liturgical muzak). I suppose it could be a reference to singing the Benedictus between the two parts of the Consecration, but I've never seen this. Pope Benedict expressly acknowledged and, if memory serves, encouraged the singing of a polyphonic Benedictus which would begin as soon as the consecration was complete.

    Cheers,
    Chris
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    chonak, I also understand it that way. The comment I was responding to could, however, be interpreted differently.

    Some years ago, one of our organists who was not completely familiar with the EF continued playing the organ softly after the Sanctus was sung. The choir had knelt, and since we're in the loft, we couldn't see what was happening at the altar. After a couple of minutes, a flustered server appeared in the loft, waving his hand across his throat - "cut". Then the celebrant proceeded with the Consecration.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    The Sanctus should indeed be ended by "Hanc igitur"; that's the reason for the bell sign customary in several churches, and I remember some old rubricist book (by old I mean 19th century) that took recourse to a SRC decision and told the celebrant to stay longer at the Memento if necessary.
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