Brand new Catholic and church musician HELP!
  • Ok. I am an ex-Protestant musician just getting started as church musician for a very small church. My goal is to bottom-line help people worship in the best possible using whatever gifts/efforts I can. I'm frankly not capable or interested (at least right now) in playing/singing a strictly "traditional" Catholic Mass. I'm busily trying to drop the Protestant baggage of "reinventing the wheel" for each and every service, and figuring out how best to please the attenders' "musical tastes".

    I play either organ or piano, and serve as cantor. I also have one person who joins me when he can. I use Today's Liturgy, which goes with Breaking Bread hymnals. I chose Schutte's Mass because I had been attending a nearby parish that used it and was also used at mass service preceding mine. Please let me know if choices below are "kosher". I'm so used to the "anything goes" style, I don't want to throw people off. The only people I have to help me is a priest that allowed last pianist to choose anything from hymnal, probably due to his inexperience, and really let's me do anything I want.

    My choices so far for this Sunday the 20th are:
    Entrance: Gather Us In (Haugen)
    Kyrie*
    Gloria*
    Psalm Responsorial from "respond and acclaim"
    Alleluia from "respond and acclaim"
    Preparation Hymn: Give Me Ears to Listen (Smith)
    Sanctus*
    Mystery of Faith "When we eat this bread..."*
    Amen*
    Agnus Dei*
    Communion Hymn: Shelter Me, O God (Hurd)
    Sending Forth: Take the Word of God with You (walker/Harrison)
    *MASS OF CHRIST THE SAVIOR (Schutte)

    Please advise me about these. I'm on a huge learning curve, and what with having to learn both singing ans accompaniment parts, it's huge. I want to make sure all selections are as supportive as possible with the Mass and helps as much as possible.

    Thank you for your time!
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,318
    I don't have time to respond fully right now, but I want to welcome you home to the Catholic Church.

    Forumites, please help this man move from where he is to where we believe he needs to be. Advice for steps in the right direction, delivered with kindness, will be helpful.

    To the OP, thank you for asking and for thinking about these important liturgical matters.
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,469
    Welcome!

    I'm hoping someone else will chime in with specific books/resources/videos to flesh out my suggestion here, but:

    My advice...

    1. For the time being, continue doing what you are doing currently in terms of hymn/song selection, as I assume it more or less is the normal practice at your parish. I was once told by another church musician (my brother!), "Change nothing for a year."

    Be sure to talk with your priest as often as possible.

    2. Learn as much as you can about the musical structure and history of the Roman Rite. The paradigm of "hymn selection" evidenced in your above order of worship is completely normal and typical in English-speaking parishes in the U.S., and it is also quite wrong.

    This is not a matter of musical style, of "traditional" vs. "contemporary" hymns, or about which instruments are best suited to the liturgy. In my experience, most parishes that think of themselves as "traditional" are doing the same kind of thing you describe above, but with potentially different choices for each of the four "hymn slots."

    The details of what specifically constitutes the true structure of the liturgy and music's place within it is a bit too much to write in a forum post- and, indeed, a lifetime of study will continually unearth new insights. There are several excellent books and recorded talks on the subject, which I'm sure other commenters can remember and link to.

    As you start to understand what the structure of the Rite actually is, how music is supposed to work within it, and where that ideal structure lines up with or conflicts with your parish's current practice, you'll start to figure out what changes, if any, ought to be made.

    2A. Read the Roman Missal, and the General Instruction. Study it.

    3. If you can make it to a CMAA event - such as a beginner's chant workshop or the summer Colloquium - you should do so.

    I've been Catholic all my life, highly involved and interested in the liturgy, and have attended dozens of workshops on musical and liturgical matters. Most of that experience and knowledge pales in comparison to what I learned from one single talk by Dr. Marht in Houston three years ago.

    4. "Lurk more"

    Read posts here and at the Chant Cafe. You pick up a lot by eavesdropping.
  • SBCPianoman,

    Welcome home! I'm a convert myself, and will be happy to help you, off-line, with the challenges of being both a new Catholic and being a newly-minted choir director.

    For now, though, let me offer the following (hopefully pithy) important tips.

    1) Always remember that Mass is the worship of Almighty God. This truth doesn't depend on the "form" of the Mass.
    2) Nurture your own faith -- not with ancient or modern, traditional or progressive, but with the love of the saints. Thomas Aquinas' poetry; Alphonsus Liguori; Padre Pio; Maria Faustina; Margaret Mary Alacoque; Therese of Lisieux; Maria Goretti; Jean-Marie Vianney Fulton Sheen - whose cause is currently being investigated.
    3) I would add a caveat to Adam's "change nothing for a year" idea: while you're busy not changing, be learning, be praying, be planning what change needs to be made, how and when.
    4) Don't ask the question: "What do I want to do here?", until you've asked, rather, "What does the Church require of me?". Application of principles is easier if you have the principles first.
    5) Remember that you're part of a Universal church, not just a local church community. Pope Benedict changed the Rite of Baptism to remove the expression "the christian community" and replace it with a stronger expression, in part to reflect this reality.

    That will do for starters.

    Cheers,

    Chris
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,318
    Good work so far, gents! I want to echo cgz's statement: don't look to do whatever the Church permits/whatever you can get away with. Look at the documents a lot and try your level best to do what the Church ASKS for. It's not hard to figure out what she asks for once you're truly acquainted with her documents on liturgical music.
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    A great application of irishtenor's principal of not going with whatever is allowed: the seasonal responsorial psalm.

    It's licit to use the same psalm every Sunday of ordinary time, for the seasonal responsorial psalm clause. Should you? Of course not...

    [edited for clarity]
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,971
    Although your priest may have let the last pianist choose whatever, stay in touch with that priest - often. As one of our members can tell you, (The Catholic Choirbook), you may think all is well, but plots and sub-plots are going on in the choir and congregation. Stay on Father's good side and in constant communication with him. I would also add that you should not introduce many changes too rapidly. That tends to create enemies, and it isn't necessary. Develop a multi-year plan with the pastor, and gradually implement it.
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • Thanks for comments. Greatly appreciated and very helpful. I'm not very happy with my music choices for Sunday. One difficulty is that the one "choir member" so far is used to the guitar mass music only and surprisingly doesn't know the old hymns (i.e., How Firm a Foundation). He's already complained at how many "new" songs I'm introducing all at once. I'm trying to figure out what the attenders know as far as music. The priest has only been there 1 year. Last pianist 17 yr. old who recently went off to college.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Ben, I loves ya.
    But in 43 years I have never been convinced that that is in any way an optimal solution for singing the responsorial.
    SBCp, what region of the US do you live?
    Charles
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Sorry, noticed my post was probably a bit unclear... just edited it. I'm not as crazy as ya think.

    Ok, I lied. I am as crazy as you think. Just not in the same way.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • SBC Pianoman,

    I can't emphasize this point enough: do not seek your advice about what to do from noisemakers in the parish. You're not introducing new songs. You're doing your job, and didn't check with him before choosing. If he would like to provide a complete list of approved songs, you would be happy to look at it -- and in the meantime, you have a job to do. (Don't be so blunt, perhaps, but catering to one noisemakers encourages others to make noise. All that does is make a more noisy parish, and the sense that you, the choir director, have no expertise at all and no agenda but to listen to competing voices and figure out who doesn't get your favor this time.)

  • I totally agree with cgz. Do NOT seek advice from noisemakers in the parish. That could only lead to distress. As music director, respect the parishioners and smile at them, but remember YOU were hired as DOM and it is YOUR job to produce the best music for the parish.

    I agree with my colleagues that going too fast will be difficult for the parish. I went through that myself with a difficult priest. But, in addition to being DOM at my parish, I also teach at another Catholic school and am responsible for masses. They, too, use Breaking Bread and Journey Songs. In an attempt to bring in more traditional hymnody, I've decided (and it's worked) to use more contemporary music for the Processional and Recessional, and use sacred hymnody for Communion. I play instrumentals for offertory, as I'm trying to get away from the "4 hymn sandwich". The children in the school (and their parents who attend mass, which many do), have accepted and enjoyed my "compromise".

    Best wishes, welcome to the forum, and may the Holy Spirit guide all of us as we do God's work.
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Welcome to the forum and back to the Catholic Church. Lurk a lot. Ask a lot of questions and never be insulted by what anyone here says. I've learned a great deal here. God bless and try to enjoy this journey you are beginning!
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • Welcome, brother in Christ.

    As others have commented already, you want to change slowly. In this way, you build on what the community knows. At the same time, sudden change draws too much attention to the music. Music serves the liturgy. The congregation should be focused on the Bible readings, the sermon, and the Eucharist. They shouldn't go home talking only about the new organist and his choices.

    You need plans for the short term (Sunday), your first year, and beyond. If I understand you correctly, your congregation has used Schutte's Mass before.

    For this Sunday, use the organ. Don't use the mike. Use Schutte's Mass, as you planned. Use Respond & Acclaim, as you planned.
    Entrance: Amazing Grace (New Britain)
    Offertory: Here I Am, Lord (Schutte)
    Communion: One Bread, One Body (Foley)
    Recessional: Holy God, We Praise Thy Name (Grosser Gott)

    I chose these hymns because they are well known. See this survey. They are all in Breaking Bread.

    For the first year, and beyond, I'll post next week.
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • You've got to do the responsorial psalm that is in the hands of the people in the worship aid.

    Doing anything else is professional suicide. The flak that the pastor will get from the pews will result in unhappiness...not in the people, but with you. Trust me.

    The only way you will get rid of it is placing something else in their hands, not a temporary flyer, but a printed book of some sort that totally replaces their current worship aid.

    It's a fight that you will lose if you do otherwise.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,206
    Welcome, piano man! A fair number of us transferred into the Church as adults (me too), so we've been on the same learning curve that you are now experiencing.

    About principles of sacred music, see an informative piece on the main musicasacra.com site, called "Twenty-four questions about sacred music". In short, CMAA's aim is rather idealistic, in the sense that we want to follow the Church's teachings and heritage of sacred music, but the route to get to the ideal has to be gradual.

    Anyway, to answer your immediate question, if no one else has: the list you've posted looks correct, and follows the lawful norms. Have a happy Sunday!

    --RC, forum admin
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • As much as I abhor the Breaking Bread hymnal... there are planning aids that you can get through OCP or GIA which will give you some ideas and you can go towards the more traditional choices from those, or using theirs suggestions pick the traditional hymns that best match the (bad) choices they offer. I know this is more paying into a broken system, but to at least get you on your feet it may be a good choice.
    Thanked by 1SBCpianoman
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    This is a digression, so ignore it should it not suit your interest. But don't flame me, 'cause you been caveated.
    To "abhor the Breading Bread hymnal" is a fool's errand. Try thinking of the worship aide as a modern automobile in this current market place, ie. the spectrum between a Veyron (8mpg carbon footprint) to a Ford Fusion top level hybrid (104 mpg). I don't give a rip what anyone else declares, there's enough in BB as there is in Gather, Worship IV, whatever's WLP's big gun is, to effect laudible worship via worship rituals. I agree totally with the advice to ignore the shill magazines, have done so for 25+ years. But to assign responsibility for under-maturated decsion making capabilities to "the system" is just as much a cop-out as to say that ADOREMUS or even the SEP or the Vatican II Hymnal is a panacea solution to all lit/music woes.
    Give a hungry person a fish for dinner, or teach the person how to fish. It's as simple as that.
    If you're naive enough to think that Elaine Rendler or Fred Moleck have some measure of noble interest in the content of their respective shill periodicals, then God bless you.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,206
    Oh - I just remembered one thing to note about "Gather Us In". It's best to avoid the last verse, which says:

    Not in the dark of buildings confining, not in some heaven light years a-way
    Here in this place the new light is shining, now is the kingdom, and now is the day.


    The expression about "some heaven light years away" sounds dismissive toward Christian faith -- the sort of thing one used to see in crass anti-religious propaganda.

    With some of these songs, it's not surprising if they contain very non-Catholic ideas; the author's a member of a mainline Protestant denomination.

    --
    And, Choirbook, is "Respond & Acclaim" using different psalm settings from those in "Breaking Bread"?
  • To echo something which has been said here, I had much luck writing all of my own antiphons for the psalter in a school Mass. I may still have the set, but since these were all week-day Masses, they won't be of much help to a Sunday-Mass crowd, except as these same psalms show up in the Sunday lectionary. Since I had the chance, I took it: I canted the psalms myself, unaccompanied, and as far from the microphone as I could possibly get. No C-130s landed on my watch. With the Headmaster's permission, we made a separate handout for each and every school Mass or grade Mass, so that no announcing was necessary, at least not for musical questions. In one sense (please, those of you who are tempted, don't flame me for this comment) the congregation at your parish is like a collection of little children with their helicopter parents: they can be taught, you will teach the children much faster than the adults, and you can expect a certain amount of arrested emotional and spiritual development. Acknowledge the state of arrested development, but like a doctor lancing a boil, don't stop just because the patient screams a little.
  • I just read the 4th verse lyrics to "Gather Us In". Yikes. I have run across a lot of lyrics in BB that send a narcissistic message. Has anyone made a warning list of hymns to avoid?
    I'm located in central California coastal area.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    RC, RandA is exclusively used with BB, always has been.
    SBCp, I'm in Fresno Diocese, Visalia and we visit our daughter in SLO quite often. I've been a DM well over forty years. Whatever help or advice you might need, here's a fellow Californian (left coaster to any from other regions that contain troglodytes to effete elite!) that would be honored to assist you. Don't let Adam Wood fool ya, we got Bill Mahrt, Mary Ann CarrWilson, Jeff Morse, Jeff Keyes, Sam Dorlaque, Rudy deVos, Chris GZ, Chris Tietze, Paul Ford, and your humble correspondent, and plenty other Californians who are on the crest of the RotR wave!
    Send a message if you'd like contact info.
    Charles Culbreth
    The Catholic Church of Visalia
    www.musicgiftofgod.blogspot.com
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    And Dearest takes on another protege...how DOES he do it? :)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,971
    I know. It's amazing. After weight watchers, I would think he would be locked in a room gnawing on his ankle. LOL.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Well, I do have an unhealthy affection for Hannibal Lecter.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Melo, R and A is not exclusive to BB, as it is also used with the other OCP publication Music Issue (MI). I would agree that R and A is exclusive to OCP, however.

    SBCpianoman, they are totally right about not taking your advice from the noisemakers: there will always be somebody who doesn't like something you've done, or someone who thinks they are going to use the new guy to get to the admins so they can get something else changed (not necessarily anything to do with music, but when you are new and politically vulnerable, some try to exploit this to get the attention of the admin). This doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. I can't emphasize enough how important communication with your pastor is: he is not only your boss in this job, but often knows people in the parish pretty well, and can also guide you in learning general liturgical principles that will help you make better decisions regarding the music.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    CK
    Yes, thank you for getting my gist and clarifying it.
    C
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz