I would keep Kyrie XI for Ordinary time; if it is used during Advent & Lent people will associate it with those seasons, then, if you do do the Kyrie during OT people will wonder "why are we using Lent music?", like singing a hymn set to ST FLAVIAN during Christmas.

What your pastor does reflects a mistaken practise that I have seen in many places: "the Kyrie is penitential so it should only be sung during the penitential seasons." By this logic we should only sing the Agnus Dei on the days it occurs in the Gospel reading. 'B' as in 'B', 'S' as in 'S'.

In Mass XVII the Mode VI Kyrie is often reserved for Gaudete and Laetare Sundays, the Mode I Kyrie sung the rest of the time, but this isn't binding. Incidentally, the Mode VI chant is the only one that appears for that Mass in the Ratisbon/Medici books.

To make things less complicated, the assignments of some collections to certain seasons is fairly arbitrary, so feel free to follow them slavishly, nod to them, or if appropriate, ignore them completely.

Love stories for Kyrie XI abound, you are not alone!
I've run a chant camp for three years. The first two years we learned mass XI. This past July we learned Mass VIII. The biggest complaint? The kids missed Kyrie XI!!! They had a hard time not singing it.

And after what Joey B did at this past Colloquium, with his jazz stylings...

Lets just say I love it even more!!

Another question on the Orbis Factor Kyrie: The asterisk — before which the cantor intones, and after which the rest of the schola presumably would enter — is in between the words "kyrie" and "eleison." Is that at all flexible? Could the cantor intone the whole first "kyrie eleison," with the schola and/or congregation responding in kind?

That's sort of what I'm used to hearing with Kyrie XVI — that is, a simple call-and-response pattern for each of the three invocations.

EDIT: A quick forum search for the word "sixfold" reveals several related threads. (In other words, never mind!) ;)

SECOND EDIT: Including this thread from a year-and-a-half ago… which I started! *facepalm*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmkhk9Z8Lu4

There are different ways of doing it. One common way is to use a call-and-response between the Cantor and the Choir+Congregation for a 6-fold kyrie.

Another method is to have one cantor sing up to the first asterisk, then two other cantors of the same voice up to the double asterisk and the whole choir from there to the end.

It is entirely arbitrary. There are various customary practices and often I use different ones entirely based upon what I happen to feel like doing on the day.

I would recommend keeping Orbis Factor as the Ordinary Time mass setting.

If nothing else, you can get away with using only four chant masses to cover the liturgical year:

Mass VIII - De Angelis - for feasts/solemnities, Eastertide and Christmastide
Mass XI - Orbis Factor - for Sundays in Ordinary Time
Mass XVII - Sundays of Lent and Advent
Mass XVIII - Weekdays Masses

I would recommend pushing the use of the ICEL English Chant Mass as per the missal. However, I ALWAYS use the Greek Kyrie instead of the English. I would also recommend using the same chants in Latin (this is the same as Missa Simplex I from the Kyriale Simplex.)

When Jubilate Deo was issued in 1974, it was intended to form the absolute minimum gregorian chant repertoire expected to be used by all parishes. I have spent the past two years pushing the use of these chants in my college chaplaincy in the hope that most of my fellow students will know a number of basic chants when they graduate and hopefully they will encourage their parishes to use them.

I have listened to two priests on two separate occasions complain about the use of the ICEL chant ordinary on the grounds that those are proper to Masses of the Dead. I know they aren't, but just sayin'.

Mix it up. Use Kyrie XII and Agnus Dei Ad Libitum II. They are from Missa Simplex IV anyway.

The way I understood the matter, qas that the first cantor intones to rhe first asterisk and the the other cantors join from there.

Add the tonic as a drone and you are all set :D

Ben, that was sort of my thought. If I don't scare them away by trying to get them to sing the melismatic "Kyrie" right away, they'll hear it enough that they'll be able to sing it when we DO start chanting it correctly.

I LOVE the tonic drone, but not sure that will help my very Haugen/Haas oriented congregation get a handle on all those neumes! :)

Two years ago our church went from Haugen/Haas to the Gregorian settings just as Hartley has described. At regular Sunday Masses, I must admit, there is not a lot of participation. At daily Mass, there is a great deal of participation. On special feasts, when the "tried and true" portion of the congregation come, there is also a lot of participation from the congregation regardless of the Gregorian Mass setting we sing.

I realize that congregational participation is not an issue for some. I'm just stating what is happening at our suburban parish. I think time is key.

Resurrecting.
I had found a thread that addressed this, I thought, but I can't find it.

When introducing these Ordinaries, with particular focus on the Kyrie, how did you handle it? Did you just dive right in? Sing it before Mass? Also, how did you handle the final congregational response with the "flourish" considering they don't hear it before they have to sing it?

I have been itching to use de Angelis for Solemnities, Christmas, Easter, etc., but it is not familiar and isn't the easiest of the Kyrie. Would it be better to hold off and start with XI after Christmastide?

We just started singing it and didn't worry about practise.

That's what we do, too. We sing a new Mass setting before Mass once or twice and the first couple of times, the schola sings everything, but after a week or two, we sing it antiphonally between the sopranos on one phrase with the altos, men and congregation singing the alternate phrase.

It's a moot question, apparently. According to the pastor, he wants to recite the invocations.

*Grumpy Cat*
No.

Use a chant setting of the Kyrie (Lord have mercy) in English, written with the English language in mind. Don't try to fit English words with authentic Gregorian melodies. The results are almost always not desirable.

There's the one in the Roman Missal, one in CBWIII based on Kyrie IX but using only the first Kyrie as its base, a setting or two in the Lumen Christi Missal, and countless others that I don't recall.

I felt that was probably the answer.

JulieColl - Thank you! I would be remiss if I didn't mention that others on this forum have seen my not-so-patient side. :) I'm not quite sure how he thinks they'll be ready for it to be reintroduced down the road if they're not hearing it at least on a semi-regular basis, but he has a plan.... I hope.

Pull out the Tallis and Byrd. "If Ye Love Me" is a good one.

http://www.ccwatershed.org/vatican/Mass/