Lord of the Dance
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    It has happened. A funeral has requested Lord of the Dance at Mass.

    Now, I know there are a number of differing opinions on the forum regarding families selecting funeral music, and, the general consensus seems to be "if you allow it, bend a little and allow slightly less than ideal music. For now."

    My question though is, does this hymn fall SO far short of ideal that I ought to suggest they change it? A few points of consideration:
    1. Today is Tuesday. Funeral is Friday, so there is time for the family to consider it.
    2. We currently use Breaking Bread (FOR NOW) and Lord of the Dance is in it.
    3. My guidelines (which are given to all families) cite Breaking Bread as a resource, but also maintain I reserve the right to rearrange or omit selections.

    I have certainly bent in the past, but I feel any hymn which conjures an image of a tiny cartoon Jesus wiggling around on top various celestial objects in outer space ought not be included in the Mass. Thoughts?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Try this approach with the bereaved or their musical "agent."
    At the end of the commendation, even if the celebrant already recites it in English, chant the In paradisum. It doesn't matter that much even if the celebrant dismisses with "Now let us take our ......". Sing it after that as the pall bearers et al begin the recessional. Then-
    Play the Copland arrangement of "Simple Gifts" from "Appalachian Spring" for the duration of the folks' exit. No singing. There's gravitas in the Copland enough to mitigate the cosmology of Carter's lyrics.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood Gavin
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I generally say that if it is in the hymnal, it is allowed. The remedy for that is to buy a better hymnal.
    Thanked by 9Jani Spriggo Adam Wood jpal CHGiffen Gavin Heath bkenney27 Philothea
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Anyone who think the Lord of the Dance is an okay song is probably liberal enough to not believe in a literal devil. So you could probably point out that the penultimate stanza is therefore, theologically dubious.
    Thanked by 3Andrew_Malton Chris Allen bkenney27
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Of course you could mention "they whipped and they stripped and they hung me on high" as another line which does not befit a funeral.

    I would probably let it go if they were adamant and proceed with something like Charles' suggestion, but would dissuade them if I thought I could.
  • Mark HuseyMark Husey
    Posts: 192
    You could win the battle but lose the war. If the pastor doesn't have a problem with it, offer it up and pray for grace to endure it as an act of humility.
    Thanked by 8CharlesW CHGiffen Andrew Motyka matthewj mrcopper Spriggo Heath Philothea
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Adam

    I believe in a literal evil one, and my concerns about LOTD are not so much theological as rhetorical. After all, the theology of the Cross in the Christian tradition (especially 1st Millennium) is very much of Christ Victor - in a fairly literal battle with the Evil One and Death itself. (Whence we get the images of trampling Death by death in the Harrowing of Hell.) LOTD conveys a relatively high Christology in substance. It's the rhetoric (which is not nothing, I hasten to add) and music that set a tone. There are many choices of hymns that are lighter, theologically, but more Serious in Tone.

    The first option here is to find something else that might appeal more to the requester. But I'd hesitate about drawing a line against LOTD in a precipitous way; better to come up with a white list from the hymnal (black lists are more problematic and invite arguments in a way that white lists don't).
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Of course you could mention "they whipped and they stripped and they hung me on high" as another line which does not befit a funeral.

    I don't get it. Of all the things that are troublesome about the song, you don't like the reference to the Passion of Christ? Not "paaaaastoral" enough?
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Agreed about a white list. Not everything from the hymnal is suitable for every occasion. Even people with random taste or lame preferences will get that. Of course you'd need a pastors ok before doing that, but it might save you from this kind of situation in the future.

    "I'm sorry, grieving family member, but your request is just wrong, inferior, and cheesy. What were you thinking?!" That's often what people hear, unfortunately, no matter how tactfully you present it. Been there so many times, have the scars from singing Bette Midler tunes as prelude- ouch. A white list will give good guidance and avoid most inappropriate requests.

    Melo has a good idea about singing In paradisum, then instrumental American hat tip, to make everyone happy. I can kinda hear those back to back. People seem to really love In paradisum when I give a nutshell translation and sing a snippet over the phone. It's a beautiful, touching prayer for most. Can't tell you how many times they change their mind, "oh, I really like that one".
    Thanked by 2Gavin R J Stove
  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    I don't share British author Stephen Fry's views on religion, but I do wholeheartedly concur with what he has hilariously written about "Lord of the Dance":

    Maybe it [Fry's disdain for dancing] all springs from having to sing at school the Worst Song Ever Written — Lord of the Dance. ‘Dance then, wherever you may be, for I am the Lord of the Dance said he. I’ll dance with you if you dance with me, for I am the lord of the dance said he.’ And so bloody on. If ever a song were guaranteed to create a generation of atheists and non-dancers it is that one. ‘I danced for the sun and I danced for the moon. I danced at night and I danced at noon.’ I mean, come on. Seriously shut up. Shut so up and go so dreadfully and entirely away.
    Thanked by 3canadash R J Stove Philothea
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I find the parodies on this site hilarious.

    http://www.dioceseofwenchoster.co.uk/hymnal/hymnstore/HM&A142.htm
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    FWIW, Stephen Fry's taste is not widely shared, especially among American Christians (who do not largely share the British indulgence of a good insult), and reactions like his by church musicians are even more likely to send folks out that door for good.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Liam, I doubt anyone is suggesting that the bereaved family should be reading Stephen Fry.

    But I wholeheartedly agree with you about the inadequate treatment of the crucifixion as presented in the hymn. Jesus said that he laid his life down freely. He walked to Jerusalem WHILE predicting his passion. "In that strange and awful strife," "One and only noble tree"--none of this is appropriately rendered by cheerfully singing, "It's hard to dance with the devil on your back."

    It's inappropriate like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u6-pecrzCo
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    I wonder if this related to the problem of eulogies at funerals. Kinda how the wedding day is Bridezilla's day who forces congregations to endure All-4-One's "I swear"; so for funerals, now that I'm dead it's my day and you have to respect my wishes no matter how inappropriate they are.

    Sadly, because of the priestly epidemic of confrontation phobia, I don't think good sense can prevail in this circumstance.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Second suggestion for the OP, and since Kathleen's checked in on this. Since we (TOHARCC) in the anglosphere have further ripped of both Anglo and American hymntunes from native folk and sacred (harp and harmony) sources, perhaps Ms. Pluth could write an appropriate psalm text, or NT allusion hymntext that matches up to SIMPLE GIFTS, but passes muster theologically and liturgically?
    Then use that wherever in the processionals, recessional it would best fit (I vote recessional, as no one will likely notice the words sung anyway. BKenney, send Kathy an honorarium if she comes through for you.
    Just trying to help solve the real, not perceived, protracted problems. YMMV
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    (could use some work. Also, as per Shaker music- some of the meter is fudged a bit [extra syllables, especially on pickups])

    The Lord is my shepherd, he fulfills all my needs
    I lie down in the grass by the water where he leads.
    On the path of righteousness he guides my soul,
    for the sake of his name he has made me whole.
    Though through all dangers I may go
    The fear of death I shall never know.
    For these are my comfort, your staff and rod,
    You are with me, my Lord and God.

    In the sight of my foes, a banquet you prepare
    You annoint my head with the oil of your care
    And the cup of blessing you have poured for me,
    over flows to the ends of eternity.
    Surely your merciful ways
    and your goodness are mine to the end of my days.
    I will dwell in the house of the Lord Most High,
    I will live with him, I will never die.
    Thanked by 7melofluent irishtenor Salieri Kathy Andrew_Malton Heath bkenney27
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 121
    I will tell you what one pastor I once worked for said: "If you ever do "Lord of the Dance" in this church, I will fire you on the spot. I concur with these sentiments. Why OCP would ever publish or promote such a song is beyond me. They are market driven, yes, but they are also agenda driven. That their agenda is Catholic is questionable. This song, and Delores Duffner's "Sing a New Church", are not fit for the Holy Mysteries. I hope that Archbishop Sample will expunge these both from what OCP has to offer.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen francis Philothea
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    This song is so cheerful-sounding that you couldn't ask people to sing it at a funeral, just out of sensitivity to the feelings of the moment. But you can play "Simple Gifts" on the organ during the offertory or the recessional, and that'll do.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Hilluminar, my pastor has banned the Celtic Alleluia and a little ditty called "Sanctuary." His words were, "I forbid you to use either one. I am not having that trash in my church." Works for me. I think the reason "Lord of the Dance" hasn't come up, is because I have never used it.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    We do very conservative funerals with beautiful sacred music. I will say, however, that on occasion I've been asked to do something way off base and gently reminded the family that such and such is not proper for a funeral mass. If I know the family, or they are popular in the parish, I've been known to take my flute out to the cemetery and play the requested song. My very conservative priest has also allowed music not appropriate for mass, to be sung and/or played outside the church while the casket is being put into the hearse. Just a thought.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Philothea
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    A good thought, I think. That could work quite well.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Yes, that is a good idea. Some songs can also very effectively be transferred to a viewing ceremony, before or after a rosary, or at a wake. If something is borderline, and the family insists, sometimes working it in as a prelude or instrumental works well and doesn't distract from the funeral mass.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Oh! I play the flute as well, so that's an excellent option.
    Excellent ideas, everyone. Thanks for the help.

    (Adam, expect a royalty check for your Psalm 23 a la Tap Dance.)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Payment not required but very much appreciated.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Wood, doncha know you're perpetuating pastoral musicians' sorry state of indentured servitude by dithering over proper recompense?
    By the way, where's my union dues money order (too many cheques were rubber!)

    And my undergrad major was flute as well. We could have a fluters' Colloquium in Indy. I just can't bring myself to say "flautist."
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Of course you could mention "they whipped and they stripped and they hung me on high" as another line which does not befit a funeral.


    I don't get it. Of all the things that are troublesome about the song, you don't like the reference to the Passion of Christ? Not "paaaaastoral" enough?


    none of this is appropriately rendered by cheerfully singing, "It's hard to dance with the devil on your back."


    This.

    It's the "cheerfully" part that I have a problem with. We were at a Mass a few years ago; it was a "Companions of the Cross" parish and this hymn came up on the screen. A few rousing choruses and then there was clapping to the beat. It made no sense. It was awful. My children were completely confused by it as well. One of them asked why we would sing about the crucifixion this way. I had no good answer.

    But this is not the point of this thread. I think there are many good solutions. Now is not the time to cause people to become so angry they leave the church forever... which, I understand happens over these matters.



  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    Howzabout

    Surely your kind, forgiving ways...

    (Very nice job, Adam!)
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    If you're looking for other hymns, you could suggest "Father, we thank thee who hast planted".
    Thanked by 4Ben CHGiffen canadash Gavin
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    "Father, we thank thee who hast planted"

    One of my favorites.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Maybe I should have marked that in purple.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Kathy's word suggestion is a good one.
    Any others?

    I'll try to put it under notes ASAP (which will make the syllable squishing more clear, and maybe help me "correct" it).
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    As an aside, we begin regular choir rehearsals for the season tonight. Prayers and positive thinking for a productive, fruitful season would be appreciated! Season 3, here I come....
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Oh, also: @CharlesW we are definitely working on purchasing better hymnals! (See my thread asking for suggestions.) I am so done with OCP.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Salieri
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Hopefully it with be RIP OCP.
    Thanked by 2Ben CHGiffen
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Haha. I passed on the virtual copy of the St. Michael's Hymnal to my Pastor and he quite liked it. But anyway... not to get off topic....
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