Some questions about weekday propers
  • Titus
    Posts: 4
    I understand that ferias (feriae?) don't have their own propers: you repeat the propers from the previous Sunday.

    But I have a few other questions.

    1. If the Graduale only has some of the propers, say, bits of Vespers, and no Mass propers, for a memorial, from where do you pull the rest of the propers? Do these come from the "common of saints," depending on the saint-of-the-day's station? I don't see one for "saint, neither apostle, pope, virgin, nor martyr." So (to take a concrete example) if I want to commemorate St. Joseph of Cupertino on September 18, which Mass propers are used?

    2. To what extent does the answer to No. 1 depend upon the Form of the Mass being said? If I'm trying to put together materials for N.O. weekday Masses, is my only original-source work the 1974 G.R.?

    3. I could answer this, I suppose, if I had a 1974 G.R., but are there propers for the ember days in the N.O.? I've heard tell that their observance is "optional," but I don't know if it's even possible to say an ember day Mass in the N.O.

    4. Getting down to brass tacks, is there a comprehensive source for weekday propers in English? I'm looking (right now) for eight weekdays between now and Christmas: 9/4 (Rose of Viterbo), 9/18 (Joseph of Cupertino), St. Denis or St. John Leonardi, St. John Capistrano, Nov. 6 (31st Sunday in O.T.), Nov. 20 (33d Sunday in O.T.), John Damascene (12/4), and Ember Wednesday in Advent (3d Sunday of Advent). If I can't get English, Latin will suffice.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    http://blog.yankehome.com/index.php/projects/ferial-english-propers/

    While I haven't had a chance to work on it lately, I've been working on setting all of the ferial (daily Mass) propers from the GR to the tones that Simple English Propers is based on. I haven't even gotten started at the proper of saints, but the proper of time is mostly done, as you can find below. Also, up through most of lent, verses have also been added and typeset here. Feel free to bookmark this link, as it will be updated as I work forward. Let me know if you have any other questions.
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    Welcome to the forum!

    Here's what I've found (corrections welcome):

    1. On page 492 of the 1974 Graduale Romanum it states:

    Pro pastoribus in genere, pro fundatoribus Ecclesiarum, pro missionariis, textus aptiores seligantur ex iis qui pro Communi Sanctorum et Sanctarum infra ponuntur.

    Rough non-Latinist translation: "For pastors in general, founders of ecclesial communities, and missionaries, more fitting texts are to be selected from among those for the Common of Holy Men and Women given below." [pp. 508-530]

    2. For N.O. weekday Masses you can select chants from the 1974 GR as well from the 1975 Graduale Simplex (Holy Men, pp. 355–366; Holy Women, pp. 367–375). By Flowing Waters is an English-language adaptation of this book.

    3. A fascinating question. GIRM 394 states:

    In the drawing up of the Calendar of a nation, the Rogation Days and Ember Days should be indicated (cf. no. 373), as well as the forms and texts for their celebration, and other special measures should also be kept in mind.

    It is appropriate that in publishing the Missal, celebrations proper to an entire nation or territory be inserted at the proper place among the celebrations of the General Calendar, while those proper to a region or diocese should have a place in a special appendix.

    The US Bishops' Conference decided to do away with Rogation and Ember Days in its local expression of the Roman Rite, but it seems that the Masses of these days were to be taken from the Masses for Various Needs (pp. 1236–1324 of the Roman Missal (USA); pp. 650–657 of the 1974 GR; pp. 386–397 of the 1975 GS; see pp. 114–115 of the Roman Missal (USA)).

    4. http://blog.yankehome.com/index.php/projects/ferial-english-propers/ (in progress)
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    1. For solemnities, feasts and memorials, the 1974 Graduale Romanum lists all the Mass propers in the 'Proprium de Sanctis' section. For other saints you can choose from the appropriate section of the 'Communia'. For St. Joseph of Cupertino this could be for example the 'Commune sanctorum et sanctarum in genere'.

    2. Yes, for OF Mass you should refer to the 1974 Graduale Romanum. Daily Masses in Lent have their own propers, whereas for daily Mass in the other liturgical seasons the propers of the Sunday are repeated, with a few exceptions that are indicated. For EF Mass you should look for the 1961 Graduale Romanum.

    3. See Aristotle's answer.

    4. Idem.

  • Titus
    Posts: 4
    These are all enormously helpful responses: thank you. I had seen Ben's project, which is hugely encouraging. I was just wondering if there was anything else. It seems not.

    Quick follow up: is the 1974 G.R. itself online somewhere, or is the only option for reproducing those texts to copy them out of a print copy of the G.R.?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    I wish I could put it online. The copyright issue is complex, and I don't really want to fight that fight.
    Thanked by 1Titus
  • Titus
    Posts: 4
    Jeffrey, thanks for the response. I'll take that to mean that it's paper or bust.

    I understand that the copyright issues are complex, to say the least. Take, for one minor example, the fact that since 1989, registration isn't a prerequisite to suing for infringement of a foreign copyright in a U.S. court.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Also, I must thank Aristotle for the work he's done on this project as well. It has my name, and I've done the composition and typesetting, but he's played a large role as well by indexing massive parts of the GR. I can't pretend that I've done all the work.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    A lot of the chants can be taken from the 1961 Graduale, which is on-line. So you'd need to get the names of those chants from the '74 Graduale.
  • Titus
    Posts: 4
    Ahh, pulling the chants themselves from the online '61 where they line up is an excellent idea. I bit the bullet and ordered the 74 G.R. yesterday, so we'll see how that works.
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