Stupid Question Time! (Re-Notation for Parishioners)

Adam Wood

Everyone says, "I can't [have an] uplifting [experience] like at Our Lady of Groovy Times [if we go back to the way] Mass used to be."

"Everyone?" says I. "Can't 'uplifting' [mean traditional music] like at Our Lady of Good Taste, [where you can experience how] Mass used to me."

melofluent

I will say, however, that this is precisely why the "other side" wins, and "our side"fails.They are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their cause.

PGA, I have to wonder if you have taken Jesus' message in last Sunday's gospel lesson too literally. I'm somewhat stunned by the notion of the liturgy as a strategic battlefield for "advance (of) cause." I manage quite a number of different directors of ensembles I can't think of a one that works purposefully to undermine my guidance towards the Pius X criteria for sacred music. But I also know they do not have the breadth of knowledge and experience with which I've been graced and gifted. For example, I recently linked them all to the video/audio practice videos for the SEP's. The first person to thank me for that was a cantor who's partial to the 70/80's mode of repertoire. My M.O. is to presume that at our parishes, our musicians are reconciled of our differences before we (tho' at four different locations) approach the altar together in sung worship. We're hardly lobbyists for political objectives.
I must say tho', the trenchant idea that each of us could simply turn a parish's liturgical music praxis over on a dime because it's all laid out for us, and presto, we've saved the liturgy and the world, seems a very naive and beyond ambitious proposition.

melofluent

Furthermore, and not to beat the horse

PaixGioiaAmor

I don't talk often like this. And I believe situations are rare that call for "battling" mentality.

But make no mistake - I have been in one or two BAD situations. In one of them, I think that if if the agitators hadn't gotten their way for NON sacred music, protesters just might have shown up outside the parish center with signs and chants, different chants from the ones I was trying to introduce. I wish I were joking or being over dramatic.

And all the while ... a silent group - maybe a majority, maybe a minority, we can never know for sure - sat quiet and would literally WHISPER TO ME ... "I like what you're doing here!" Funny thing ... they always assured me they knew that they were the minority ... yet more, and more, and more kept coming and saying that. But those who wanted THEIR WAY told them, sometimes quite literally, "shut up, no one cares what YOU want, you're not normal." YES, the words "You're not normal" were spoken to someone in a liturgy meeting.

If you don't believe that there actually exist narcissistic people in some parishes who will do WHATEVER. IT. TAKES. to get their way, well, you might be the naive one.

And in those situations - which I stress are not most or even common - I'm sick of "them" getting their way.

PaixGioiaAmor

Also not trying to beat the horse - stepping back - if people who want Haugen and Hass can write a letter saying, "sorry Father, the music here, the chant, just doesn't help me pray. I regret to inform you that I'm leaving the parish and attending St. wacky music," why can't those who want sacred music do the reverse?

Sure, it might seem like commercialism - but commercialism is already happening rampantly. So what exactly is anyone "saving" by staying put and being miserable? I don't see a ton of virtue in that - all the while, while staying put might actually help liturgy and music become worse.

Adam Wood

This is a modern problem, caused by the notion that reality is based on majority vote.

In the past, if you and I disagree with each, but I can completely see your point of view, whereas you don't understand my position at all, that would generally be considered good evidence that I was right- since I can see both sides, so must have a better understanding of thing.

Now- if you and I disagree, and I can see your point of view, but you can't see mine, you must be right. Your point of view as 2 votes (yours and mine) and mine only has 1.

The result is that the least ridiculous point of view held by the most unreasonable person becomes the ascendant ideology in all fields.

chonak

Melo, I think PGA's reminding us to take a lesson from the worldly people, who (Luke 16:8) are more shrewd in dealing with others than are the children of the light.

melofluent

If you don't believe that there actually exist narcissistic people in some parishes who will do WHATEVER. IT. TAKES. to get their way, well, you might be the naive one.

PGA, I take your points. But I caution you not to respond to my replies with personal assumptions of who I am or how I do business. I've been at this for 43 years+. I've seen it all and I don't have to prove that to you. I did not say "PGA, you're naive." I said quite clearly that situations about our responsibilities must be examined locally and not globally. Ideology is fine, but it doesn't get the job done by itself.
If you dig up my commentary, you'll find plenty of references to a close friend and forum member, Royce Nickel, who is the embodiment of your "attack sheep" scenario effect. He endured his ouster gracefully, not even having been afforded a shred of significant tenure to implement RotR at the parish which he faithfully believed would be honored by the pastor, who ended up being an invertibrate party to the coup. He sought my counsel. Why? Because I've been at the same parish for 22 years and, for better or worse, don't follow the party line that abounds in our diocesan music philosophy (OCP rules!) I try to listen to all. I don't take "thank you's" or "screw you's" as indicators of the "success or failure" of what I do at our parishes. I don't fashion myself as indispensible; rather I continue in both my own Christian pilgrimage and to study the musical aspects of ars celebrandi with devotion and love. We are simply to help people encounter the Lord Christ in an ancillary but profound manner within the Rites of the Eucharist. We are not to judge them according to our current criteria.
And I weary from saying this time and again. Can we please just tone it down?

melofluent

Melo, I think PGA's reminding us to take a lesson from the worldly people, who (Luke 16:8) are more shrewd in dealing with others than are the children of the light.

Richard, does that beg the point in question that the lesson learned for children of the light is to not behave like shrews?

PaixGioiaAmor

I appreciate your experience.

Like you, I'm now in a place where I've been able to begin a real tenure. Knock on wood, I've just finished three years and am going on four, which is tiny compared to some people's lengths in one place, but none the less is a good start. The three years have flown by and feel more like one - so I take that as a good sign.

I've made my peace with the last place (which lasted a year and a half.) It really wasn't me - it was them. I've been able to implement my vision in my current assignment while at the same time being a force for unity and being a sympathetic ear to those who want more "contemporary styled" music. We've had some growing pains, sure, but it's no where NEAR a "war." There are no winners or losers; we all care for each other.

I only wish that would have been true at the last place. But God has a plan ...

chonak

Richard, does that beg the point in question that the lesson learned for children of the light is to not behave like shrews?

Melo, you're so inventive, bending the existing usages of the English language into your own distinctive and unrepeatable art form.

melofluent

...you're so inventive, bending the existing usages of the English language into your own distinctive and unrepeatable art form.

Since you didn't really answer my question, I'll pose another one: does the above suggest you'd nominate me for the next available slot open in Vox Clara? That would seem almost paradoxical! ;-)

CharlesW

I believe we are all smart and clever enough to promote good music without waving red flags in front of the congregation and clergy. If something overt will provoke a fight, do things with more subtlety.

However, even Christ instructed that when his emissaries were not received, they should shake the dust from their sandals and depart. If you have a parish down the road doing all the right things, and where you are is not likely to change for the better, get your behind to the other parish and support it to the hilt. The folks there who are doing sacred music will likely welcome your support with open arms.

Philothea

I will say, however, that this is precisely why the "other side" wins, and "our side" fails. They are willing to do whatever it takes to advance their cause. We tend towards obedience and charity in advancing ours. And, sadly, in the world of the American parish 2013, obedience and charity get trampled down while those who yell, demonstrate, organize, and leave get catered to.

It sounds as if you are saying that charity and obedience do not yield results, therefore we should be uncharitable, loud, obnoxious, and selfish because this works for the people who don't like stuff. Is this correct?

I understand the frustration intimately, but are we really willing to resort to yelling the loudest to get what we want? That seems to fly in the face of the holiness and orthodoxy we're trying to bring to the Music at Mass.

One can be an activist and introduce orthopraxy and still be charitable and obedient. I do agree that we need to keep trying and not give up in the face of angry parishioners. I am a cantor, tho, not a Director, so when I get a no, there is nothing I can to affect change at my parish other than keep suggesting.

But the point is null and void, because I just found out that the USCCB approved paraphrased psalms and hymns to be sung as Responsorial Psalms. Disappointing.

Philothea

I want to add - there are generally not considered to be "territorial" parishes anymore. Although a parish HAS geographic boundaries, quite frankly, the days of being married to the parish where you live are long long gone. And you aren't going to bring them back by observing them, because probably half or more of your parish isn't.

I think what I do is more important than what others do. It is important to not let another's actions dictate what I do to the point of anger and perhaps bitterness. Yes, the territorial parish is more a thing of the past when populations were smaller and compact, commute wasn't so easy, and there weren't churches every couple miles. But it IS still in Canon Law that, for Sacraments, there is a particular priest responsible for administering to a particular territory. I am in that territory. Therefore, he is my priest. Unless I ask him for permission to go elsewhere, I am supposed to go to him. So it just seems like I should go to his parish.

I'm trying to follow the spirit of the law, not just the letter. I'm wondering if Canon Law will be revised to no longer include text on territorial parishes, but I doubt it, because it is more about the priest's community than mine.

To get back to the musical discussion, though. I may be being a bit scrupulous, but I still feel that to leave a church when the music is LICIT (I just don't like it) is no better than church shopping according to my preferences. I'm praying about it a lot, because I also realize I need to be fed, but I look at the option to give up and leave over something that is licit, but ugly, and it feels..... selfish to me. And shouldn't the Eucharist and the Liturgy of the Word be what feeds me? Does that make sense?

Sure, it might seem like commercialism - but commercialism is already happening rampantly. So what exactly is anyone "saving" by staying put and being miserable? I don't see a ton of virtue in that - all the while, while staying put might actually help liturgy and music become worse.

Because the point is not to do NOTHING, it is to continue to gently educate, keep suggesting new music ("Hey, I came across this and thought Id pass it along. Do you think we could sing it in three weeks?"). If they are doing something ILLICIT, that is another matter. We can quote the GIRM, we can speak to the Liturgical Director, we can find other resources to back up the reasons why we can't do such things. But if it is licit, than FIGHTING them on it just comes off as unreasonable and fanatical. I think the entire problem of the general public acting like their opinions are FACT and taking offense at disagreement is part of why the "the other side" shuts down and won't listen. They get defensive from the get-go. Everyone does when approached this way.

CharlesW

I would say you are being overly scrupulous. But as an easterner, I have never understood the Latin obsession with legality, in the first place. I suspect that if you contacted your chancery, they would tell you that you can attend mass and register at any parish you please.

Philothea

Charles,

Yes, I know this... I know that LEGALLY it would be allowed. I just.... well, what I said above :) I don't like the idea of just ditching when reform is needed.

But I've been praying and thinking about it a lot more lately, because I am an idealist (albeit rather cynical) who tends toward scrupulosity and an inflated sense of justice. If this parish becomes harmful for my family's faith, then we will move on.

Philothea

Ok, so I found out that this is all a moot point, because the USCCB approved using hymns and psalms that paraphrase. Disappointing, to say the least.

ryand

You can still appeal for something better. The paraphrased psalms might be licit, but why cut ourselves short when we approach God in the liturgy? Shouldn't we strive for the real deal?

Ask these types of questions.

Philothea

I emailed her the next three weeks' worth of Vatican II chants, but in the modern notation for organist. Hoping God can speak to her heart on this one.

PaixGioiaAmor

You seem like you're on the right track Philothea.

In case I wasn't clear, I wasn't saying you should actually act in a sinful way. I was pointing out that those who are opposed to what your wishes are will let their voices be heard. If you want change, it probably won't happen by being rather meek and quiet about it.

It's not a sin to be demanding - and they will be. So maybe you should be as well. That's my point.

Philothea

I promise I won't back down, I will do everything within my power (which, unfortunately, boils down to just having a greatly-appreciated voice).

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