Are Organists/Choir Directors a jealous lot?
  • daniel
    Posts: 75
    Though I've been in this parish a number of years, I only know one other organist/director in a neighboring parish. I don't make an effort to contact the others, and they do not contact me. Is this typical? Also - do you feel jealous when someone says to you "Wow, N over at St. N. is sure a great organist" or "you should hear how good the choir at St. N", or do you feel joy that the Church is being so well served? Just wondering how others feel.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    When I hear another musician say it, I usually think "I wish I didn't have to work Sunday mornings so I could go hear them."

    When I hear a non-musician PIP say it, I usually think "That seems.... unlikely."
    Thanked by 1bkenney27
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Can't speak for others, I feel joy that the church is being well served.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    The organists here get along well, but we rarely see each other. We are all working at the same times.
    Thanked by 1elaine60
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I second Adam's comment with regard to the hearing other people say it.

    I am working on professional relationships with all the surrounding DMs. It helps that I know and actually worked for one of them. I connected with another on Facebook, and have worked with another on more than one occasion. I'm about 75% there. This is really just my own way of helping our Archdiocesan plan for "Collaboration" when our Parishes share a team. But there is something nice about knowing and working with the other DMs in the city.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    When I see a beautiful choir rehearsal room with lots of storage space, like the one at the Cathedral in Salt Lake City, I get pretty jealous.
  • I think it depends on the musician. Some musicians are so engaged in serving the Lord and the parish that it's impossible to be envious of them. Their love of their ministry just totally exudes warmth and devotion. On the other hand, the musicians who feel it is only a "job", no matter how wonderful their choirs are, or how fancy their organs are, don't deserve the attention. And I agree that having a professional relationship with other DM's has a lot of advantages. Those who serve the Church should recognize it as a calling to ministry, not a reason for envy. We all bring our special gifts in many different ways. God bless to all!!
  • Most of the best musicians I've known have not been jealous but rather competitive, though still collaborative and joyful. They like seeing their field expand.
    I am wary of a musician that doesn't work well with others.

    Church musicians can be more territorial, and I think a lot of it is that wages are low and demands are high. And job security is wildly erratic.

    Musicians I've known who burn bridges have always been covering for a lack of knowledge. Sometimes they know it, sometimes they don't. Insecurity.

    I wonder how many church musicians consider their work an apostolate...
    So many of us are treated poorly. I think that can be very difficult, and its wrong. Even so, perhaps more so, it's crucial for our psyche and understanding of our individual mission(s) from God to always have in mind the evangelical nature of our work.
    It's not about us. Phew. What a relief!!
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I agree with MaryAnn: I don't think that organists/choir directors are jealous, but territorial, many of the reasons for which she already listed.

    I'm reminded of the situation that exists at the school where I teach (it's a Catholic school): the music teacher and parish music director are separate positions, and in this case are filled by separate people as well. I can see that as a potential source of tension.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    For me it depends on who the person making the comment is, I have two categories for comments: 1) the person making the comment has some understanding of what sacred music is; and 2) the person making the comment is firmly within the Haagen-Dasz camp, and has been complaining about more chant/Latin for the past 8 years.

    If the person is in Category 1, I usually wish that I had Sunday mornings free so I could go hear them.

    If the person is in Category 2, I say "thank you", and go get a drink.

    I don't know if this comes under the heading of 'jealousy' or not, but I do get miffed when I am at a church that has a great three-manual Cassavant languishing while they use the grand piano for everything.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I amend my original statement to this:
    I second Adam and Salieri's combined comment on my thoughts when I hear how great a choir is. Particularly the part involving alcohol.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood Salieri
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I'm always a little weary when I hear PIPs talk about another parish's program. I worry the next thing out of their mouth is going to be, "Maybe we could...."
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    "... do a Byrd mass"

    Said no one ever. At least in my parish.
    Thanked by 1gregp
  • Having a parish where the music teacher in the school and the parish DOM are two different people is very, very difficult, especially when the DOM is territorial about his/her space in the church and his/her instrument. Prior to being promoted to DOM, I was the music teacher and I endured much persecution in the name of territoriality.

    And, Salieri--most of the people I have had to deal with fall into your Category 2, so after we both say "thank you", please call me so we could both engage in that drink (or two or three!!!!!), BK--come on along....the more the merrier I say!
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    SERIOUSLY, THOUGH.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Having a parish where the music teacher in the school and the parish DOM are two different people is very, very difficult, especially when the DOM is territorial about his/her space in the church and his/her instrument. Prior to being promoted to DOM, I was the music teacher and I endured much persecution in the name of territoriality.


    The main thing I am getting from the DOM there is requests to do children's choir for him. Mainly, because I get the feeling that he wants me to do all the rehearsing so he can have them for Christmas and Easter. My first year, he tried to tell me that it was "traditionally the music teacher's job" and he "didn't feel comfortable working with children," and flat out refused to do it stating "just because the last guy did it, doesn't mean I have to." Come to find out that it was actually a couple of nice ladies from the parish that did it for over 20 years and then stopped. Second year, he tries to get me to change my curriculum to accommodate his repertoire for Christmas, then when I wouldn't do that, he decided to have the rehearsals in my room so that I have to be a part of it (the principal let me leave the building instead so I wouldn't have to be pressured into it). This year, he asked me to create one under the auspices of cooperation, but I would rehearse them up to three times during the week, on repertoire of his choosing, and he would take them once on Sundays. Then, they'd sing for one Sunday a month, and "possibly" for the school Masses on Mon, Wed, and Fri, just to "make it look like a legitimate activity...not thrown in at the last minute." Suffice to say, I'm not doing it for him this year, either. At least, my principal has my back: that has been a VERY nice thing about working where I do: she is one of the most supportive admins I've ever met.

    Sorry about the rant: I just wanted to share my story with you.