CORRECTION NEEDED: Discussion of CMAA in new Worship issue
  • The new article by Paul Mason in the latest issue of Worship has some pretty....well, what I understand to be pretty mistaken interpretations of the 1966 Congress and the CMAA’s positions of advocacy.

    I haven’t finished reading it, but basically he seems to be interpretating JP2’s 2003 chirograph on sacred music to be “a corrective to this movement for the ‘reform of the reform’”.

    He says, on the 2nd page, of the V2 CSL’s mentions of chant, that “this acknowledgement of chant has become something of a rallying point for those who wish to turn their backs on the liturgical reform in particular and on contemporary music for worship in general.”

    Mr. Mason neglects the obvious point that the state of Gregorian chant in parishes today could hardly be called “pride of place”!
  • interesting! Thank you. Love to see quotations.

    I do find that non-recognition of the existing parish reality is a feature of this type of writing.
  • Dear Jeffrey,

    Maybe I am misunderstanding your post, or the article that I am mentioning.

    It seems to me that CMAA is basically being slandered in this article, or at least misrepresented and/or made into a “straw man”.
  • right. I do understand. I would like to see the paragraph.

    my comment up there had a typo that reversed the meaning.

    Sorry i seem a bit flaky. Events in the profane world of markets have kept me spinning to the point of dizziness.
  • "those who wish to turn their backs on the liturgical reform in particular and on contemporary music for worship in general"

    We are NOT turning our backs on contemporary music. Contemporary music is music written in and of this time. We are facing avowedly secular popular music forms, glaring at the musicians who pluck, strum and hum until they look down, see themselves and get themselves to a music school or at least a schola to leave the world behind and come out as sacred musicians.

    Sacred musicians can play one note and from that note you know that the next one will be holy.
  • The formal recognition of [Keur Moussa chant repertoire], with hundreds of individual compositions, comes as strong affirmation of Pope John Paul II’s Chirograph On Sacred Music (OSM). Written for the Centenary [FG: why capitalize this word??] of the Motu Proprio Tra le sollecitudini (TLS), the chirograph re-proposes several of the fundamental principles of sacred music. In the context of the priority for full conscious active [sic] participation of the faithful, it provides significant insights for inculturation of liturgical music. It particularly enlightens two troublesome areas in Vatican II’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum Concilium (SC) [FG: again, faulty capitalization]: 1) “The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care” (SC, 114), and 2) “The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as distinctive of the Roman Liturgy; therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services” (SC, 116). Since the council this acknowledgement of chant has become something of a rallying point for those who wish to turn their backs on the liturgical reform in particular and on contemporary music for worship in general. But with new insights into sacred music and popular song, and new weight given to previous letters, addresses and [sic] audiences on these subjects, John Paul II’s Chirograph On Sacred Music can be seen as a corrective to this movement for the “reform of the reform”.
  • Sorry, frogman, gotta call this one out:
    Sacred musicians can play one note and from that note you know that the next one will be holy.


    I can play a G on the organ, and that same note can be the start of Buxtehude “Nun bitten wir den heiligen Geist” or of the main riff to “Smoke on the Water”.
  • Oh, and later on:
    Nobile Subsidium established CIMS with the objective “to promote cooperation and concerted action of as many people as possible throughout the world and within every country for the cultivaton of sacred music and its progress in accord with the Church’s directives.” With such an awesome objective and wide-ranging potential membership, CIMS got off to a particularly unfortunate start. There were a number of notorious disputes with the Consilium, Universa Laus and [sic] the leaders of the Church Music Association of America at the Fifth International Church Music Congress in Chicago and Milwaukee (August 1966). Ultimately these disputes showed up a fundamental divergence of views. By the end of the 1966 congress the disputes had virtually split the participants into two feuding camps. The primary concern of one camp was to preserve the traditional treasury of sacred music with the consequence of limiting the people’s role in “actual” singing. The other camp wished to foster the development of new music in the vernacular languages to maximize the people’s participation in singing. CIMS and the Church Music Association of America were destined to become partisan groups alongside other groups such as Universa Laus and the National Association of Pastoral Musicians. Since 1985 CIMS collocated with the Pontifical Institute of Sacred Music, sharing premises, facilities and [sic] staff, While it has done much to promote the study of native music around the world, it is [sic] yet to fulfill its intended overarching role, promoting cooperations among all concerned with sacred music.


    This one in particular seems to say CIMS/CMAA = anti-congregational-singing = bad.

    There are at least two substantial articles discussing congregational singing extensively in the 1966 congress’s report book....
  • That's all very interesting. The interpretation of the Chirograph is really far-fetched. If the pope wrote "parishes should include Latin chant among its core repertoire," they would write "the Pope has strongly rebuked those who would limit music at Mass to the chant."

    As for the heroic role of the anti-CMAA people in championing the people's song, I wonder where the reality here is. It's like Soviet propaganda posters in the 1960s heralding the people's great achievement in building a productive new civilization.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I find it interesting how such write-ups ignore the reality of today by focusing on the idealism of long ago. Yes, congregational singing is a great ideal and should be supported. BUT the "everyone sings everything all the time" mentality destroyed the chances of getting Catholics to pick up a hymnal and open their mouths entirely. I don't know what the CMAA (or its predecessor group) was saying at the time, but I could presume it was maybe more in support of having the congregation first learn the responses, then the Ordinary, and only once those are solid adding on hymns and propers. Alas, now we have whole generations of Catholics who are taught that good piety is to never pick up a hymnal, and trads who associate ANY music with what's wrong with the Church. Thanks a lot, Universa Laus.
  • Gavin, just this last Sunday I attended an Episcopalian service that featured 4 great hymns -- I mean great great hymns, hymn hymns, full of majesty. There were maybe 40 or 50 people there. I was singing at full voice and I didn't stand out at all. The sound was unbelievable and inspiring. People absolutely loved it. It was a great thing to be part of, but something perfectly obvious occurred to me at that time. The Hymn tradition, as much as any tradition, has to be organic to the worshiping community. Hymns are for people to sing; It is something that emerges and persists because people love it. It is not something they have to be goaded into doing, not something imposed. It is what they do and who they are.

    In some way, it makes no sense at all to have to push people to sing hymns. It destroys the whole essence of hymnody (of the sort I'm referring to) to have to constantly prod people with sticks and tell them to sing sing sing when they don't want to. A hymn that isn't sung with a sense of enthusiasm for the genre is really something else entirely. if people are not singing, and don't want to sing, the very core of the vernacular hymn is lost.

    I loved these hymns but mostly it was thrilling to see how much people loved to sing them. The same hymns among Catholics who don't want to do that sort of thing would not be the same hymns. They would be songs imposed on people, which is a painful sight.

    I hope this is making some sense, but it suddenly struck me that there is something completely off base in the idea of forcing people to sing hymns, the very essence of which is that they embody the core liturgical desires of the people. That alone doesn't make them good (to be sure) but at the same time I really wonder whether an objectively good hymn really has a place in a congregation that has no desire to sing them, as evidence by a complete lack of participation.

    I dooubt that anyone can change this. On the other hand, I've seen great success in having people sing Mass parts and responses, and quiet plainsong. This is very much of a sign, I think.
  • Jeffrey,

    Amen.
  • "Sorry, frogman, gotta call this one out:

    Sacred musicians can play one note and from that note you know that the next one will be holy.

    I can play a G on the organ, and that same note can be the start of Buxtehude “Nun bitten wir den heiligen Geist” or of the main riff to “Smoke on the Water”."

    Ah, grasshopper, that's you.

    When I play a G on a guitar it can be anything, Bach or Boogie.

    When I heard Segovia play a G I knew the next note was going to be heaven.

    You are who you surround yourself with, and the expectations of those around you. I would never play "Smoke " in a church and no one who knows me would expect me to. A sacred musician does not produce secular music in a sacred space. It's Cage deja vue....or as a club in Ohio was named....vue deja. It's also why subway music makers always sound good.

    I doubt that your people in the church sit waiting for you to wail a Hammond Riff behind the Cantor....but. come to think of it, that's not a bad idea....hmmmm......a REAL ROCK AND ROLL CHURCH!

    Anyone can play secular and sacred music. You may play Palestrina in a bar. Just don't expect any tips.
  • Seeeeee-koot cher voos, HEY, HOWAREYA, deh-see-deh-rahhhhht, THANKYOU, YOU GUYS ARE GREAT, odd fawnnnnntes, HEYWHEREYAFROM?, ah-kwa-ah-rooooooooommmm, I'MHEREALLWEEKFOLKS, ahhhhh, ah ah ah ah, ahahaha....
    (Must snap on the off-beats)
  • Charles in CenCA....I can hear the clink of change falling into the snifter....