Relatively obscure verses to commonly known hymns

Kathy

From Come Down, O Love Divine

Let holy charity mine outward vesture be,
And lowliness become mine inner clothing;
True lowliness of heart, which takes the humbler part,
And o'er its own shortcomings weeps with loathing.

Adam Wood

Love that verse. Love that hymn.

Also, CH Giffen wrote some lovely descants for it.

matthewj

I've always loved this (non-original) English verse of O Come All Ye Faithful:

Child, for us sinners poor and in the manger,
We would embrace Thee, with love and awe;
Who would not love Thee, loving us so dearly?

Adam Wood

Not enough people sing ALL the verses of my favorite Christmas Hymn,
Of The Father's Love Begotten

Of the Father’s love begotten,
Ere the worlds began to be,
He is Alpha and Omega,
He the source, the ending He,
Of the things that are, that have been,
And that future years shall see,
Evermore and evermore!

At His Word the worlds were framèd;
He commanded; it was done:
Heaven and earth and depths of ocean
In their threefold order one;
All that grows beneath the shining
Of the moon and burning sun,
Evermore and evermore!

He is found in human fashion,
Death and sorrow here to know,
That the race of Adam’s children
Doomed by law to endless woe,
May not henceforth die and perish
In the dreadful gulf below,
Evermore and evermore!

O that birth forever blessèd,
When the virgin, full of grace,
By the Holy Ghost conceiving,
Bare the Saviour of our race;
And the Babe, the world’s Redeemer,
First revealed His sacred face,
evermore and evermore!

O ye heights of heaven adore Him;
Angel hosts, His praises sing;
Powers, dominions, bow before Him,
and extol our God and King!
Let no tongue on earth be silent,
Every voice in concert sing,
Evermore and evermore!

This is He Whom seers in old time
Chanted of with one accord;
Whom the voices of the prophets
Promised in their faithful word;
Now He shines, the long expected,
Let creation praise its Lord,
Evermore and evermore!

Righteous judge of souls departed,
Righteous King of them that live,
On the Father’s throne exalted
None in might with Thee may strive;
Who at last in vengeance coming
Sinners from Thy face shalt drive,
Evermore and evermore!

Thee let old men, thee let young men,
Thee let boys in chorus sing;
Matrons, virgins, little maidens,
With glad voices answering:
Let their guileless songs re-echo,
And the heart its music bring,
Evermore and evermore!

Christ, to Thee with God the Father,
And, O Holy Ghost, to Thee,
Hymn and chant with high thanksgiving,
And unwearied praises be:
Honour, glory, and dominion,
And eternal victory,
Evermore and evermore!

Adam Wood

It's usually the crunchy ones that get omitted:
-Sheddeth His light, chaseth the horrors of night,
-And o'er its own shortcomings weeps with loathing.
-Who would not love Thee, loving us so dearly?
-In the dreadful gulf below,

A lot of people think "old hymns" are boring.
I blame hymnal editors for that fact.

M. Jackson Osborn

Adam's favourite is mine, too. He offers us here a cento of rather more stanzas (STANZAS!) than we normally get in most hymnals. The version in The Hymnal 1940 may be the best, that and The English Hymnal. Catholic hymnals tend to be rather niggardly in their offering of stanzas. This is particularly noticable with treasures such as 'O Come, All Ye Faithful'. Back to Corde Natus... the centos we are given in our hymnals are but snippets from Prudentius' original Cathemarinon, which has several hundred stanzas.

Kathy -
I had not known that your stanza from Bianco da Siena's lovely hymn was often lacking. It is in the 1940, even Lutheran hymnals, I'll have to check our Catholic ones.

By the way, Corde natus is fun in Latin, too.... saeculorum saeculis!

Adam: I rather like 'who would not love thee, loving us so dearly'.

Adam also says a lot of people think old hymns are boring.
He could have finished off by adding 'and, a lot of people think new hymns are boring'.
(Of course, it really comes down to what you think a hymn is, doesn't it?)

And - adding to our list of missing stanzas, this one is really strange, 'considering'.
That is the one stanza in Ye Watchers... that deals specifically with the BVM after having enlisted the praises of all nine choirs of angels and much more: namely 'O higher than the cherubim, more glorious than the seraphim, lead their praises; thou bearer of th'eternal Word, most gracious, magnify the Lord.... I have seen this stanza omitted in numerous Catholic hymnals, but found it not only (of course) in Anglican hymnals, but Lutheran ones (one may deduce that the Lutherans may not realise who they are addressing since they don't believe in the intercession of saints).

Kathy

Of course, few hymnals of any denomination contain all 26 verses of Jerusalem, My Happy Home.

Adam Wood

'O higher than the cherubim, more glorious than the seraphim, lead their praises; thou bearer of th'eternal Word, most gracious, magnify the Lord....

Present in the 1982.
When I program this hymn at the Episcopal parish where I work, I sing that verse extra loud.

[Of the Father's Love ]
Adam's favourite is mine, too. He offers us here a cento of rather more stanzas (STANZAS!) than we normally get in most hymnals.

The last few years I have programmed this at Communion for Christmas, and printed ALL the verses in the program. (Actually - I have my own slightly edited version that fixes the rhymes that have been lost to pronunciation changes.)

Salieri

Have any of you heard/used Stephen Cleobury's arr. (Christmas at King's College 2009, NOVELLO) of 'Of the Father's Heart'? I've used it a for a few years now, at various liturgies in the Christmas season, and love every bit of it.

Adam Wood

Adam: I rather like 'who would not love thee, loving us so dearly'.

Me too

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or taking issue.
(If you are taking issue, then not with me but with my lack of clarity.)

If old hymns ARE boring, it's because editors keep leaving out the juicy parts.

Adam Wood

(further....)

The few lines I quoted above as "crunchy" are among my favorite from each of those hymns.

With the exception of "Of The Father's Love."

While I do really like "in the dreadful gulf below" and its surround stanza, but my FAVORITE THREE WORDS (ZOMG!!!1!!!) of the piece occur at the end. Chanted unaccompanied, with just the right amount of ritardando and sincerity, they never fail to bring a tear (or a few) to my eyes:

"...and eternal victory"

EVERMORE AND EVERMORE

Adam Wood

Not really about obscure verses precisely, but-

I love Take Up Your Cross, which is set to O WALY WALY in (some) GIA Hymnals, and BRESLAU in most others.

But I particularly like it to BOURBON, which seems to only appear in The 1982.

And though I think the edition of the text there (and other hymnals that I've seen it in) is just fine, the original is better. (And, honestly- I can't think of any reason, even bad ones, for the emendations.)

Here is the original (according to oremus.org, anyway), in all it's wild glory.
I've italicized the lines which are majorly altered in the 1982 (and other hymnals, I believe). (I have not italicized every "thou" to "you" change and other minor edits).

Take up thy cross, the Savior said,
if thou wouldst my disciple be;
deny thyself, the world forsake,
and humbly follow after me.

Take up thy cross, let not its weight
fill thy weak spirit with alarm;
his strength shall bear thy spirit up,
and brace thy heart and nerve thine arm.

Take up thy cross, nor heed the shame,
nor let thy foolish pride rebel;
thy Lord for thee the cross endured,
to save thy soul from death and hell.

Take up thy cross then in his strength,
and calmly sin's wild deluge brave,
'twill guide thee to a better home,
it points to glory o'er the grave.

Take up thy cross and follow Christ,
nor think til death to lay it down;
for only those who bear the cross
may hope to wear the glorious crown.

(The entire last verse is omitted in the 1982)
To thee, great Lord, the One in Three,
all praise forevermore ascend:
O grant us in our home to see
the heavenly life that knows no end.

-----

Why anyone would edit out the phrase "sin's wild deluge" is beyond me.

Also, when singing this hymn, I usually get a lump in my throat that makes it difficult for me to choke out the phrase:

nor think til death to lay it down;

Gavin

Most Catholics would be surprised to discover that any hymn has more than 2 verses.

Kathy

Take up thy cross then in his strength,
and calmly sin's wild deluge brave,
'twill guide thee to a better home,
it points to glory o'er the grave.

Some hymn texts strike me as miraculous. This is one-- I've never seen it before.

Adam Wood

1982 has "calmly ev'ry danger brave" and "leads to vic'try o'er the grave"
which is fine, but....

Robert

Myrrh is mine, its bitter perfume,
Breathes a life of gathering gloom;
Sorrowing, sighing, bleeding, dying,
Sealed in a stone-cold tomb.

Also, not really a "commonly known hymn," but I love this verse from Crux Fidelis that draws a similar parallel between our Lord's Nativity and his Passion and Death:

Vagit infans inter arcta
conditus praesepia:
membra pannis involuta
Virgo Mater alligat:
et manus pedesque et crura
stricta cingit fascia.

ronkrisman

And though I think the edition of the text there [in The Hymnal 1982] (and other hymnals that I've seen it in) is just fine, the original is better. (And, honestly- I can't think of any reason, even bad ones, for the emendations.)

It appears that many editors think that there are reasons, good ones.

GIA's hymnals all use most of the emendations found in The Hymnal 1982, including all the changes of "thee" and "thou." However, more of the original text was used in Worship III than in The Hymnal 1982, and even more was restored in Gather 3 and Worship IV: let your foolish pride be still (st. 3); it guides you to a better home (st. 4); For those who humbly bear the cross one day will wear the glorious crown (st. 5), this latter being a change from what is in The Hymnal 1982.

Bearing the cross was not something Jesus "endured." He decisively accepted the will of the Father. And while the virtue of hope is necessary for the life of a disciple of Jesus Christ, I think he told us more than that we should hope to wear the glorious crown. He gave us a blessed assurance: "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and that of the gospel will save it."

The text as found in Worship IV, no. 634, and the other three hymnals published in the past 3 years by GIA Publications:

"Take up your cross," the Savior said,
"If you would my disciple be;
Take up your cross with willing heart,
And humbly follow after me."

Take up your cross, let not its weight
Fill your weak spirit with alarm;
His strength shall bear your spirit up,
And brace thy heart, and nerve your arm.

Take up your cross, heed not the shame,
And let your foolish pride be still;
The Lord for you accepted death
Upon a cross on Calv'ry's hill.

Take up your cross, then, in his strength,
and calmly ev'ry danger brave:
It guides you to a better home
And leads to vict'ry o'er the grave.

Take up your cross and follow Christ,
Nor think till death to lay it down;
For those who humbly bear the cross
One day will wear the glorious crown.

Robert

Bearing the cross was not something Jesus "endured."

Sincere question: why then does Scripture say:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1-2, NRSV)

?

Adam Wood

Fr. Ron...
First off- thanks for the back info regarding reasoning for the changes.

I really, honestly think hymnal editors should feel free to edit hymn texts as they see fit. I'm not a "original text only" fussbudget purist.

I also think it would be incredibly helpful if publishers provided back-story and explanations about what they changed and why. And, given the ease of publishing and disseminating info online, I don't see any good reason not to do so.

Bearing the cross was not something Jesus "endured." He decisively accepted the will of the Father. And while the virtue of hope is necessary for the life of a disciple of Jesus Christ, I think he told us more than that we should hope to wear the glorious crown.

I think the disagreement here stems from different understanding of "hope" and "endure." I really don't think either of those words, in context, disagree with the theology of the passion or our salvation.

Christ certainly "endured" the cross and it's pain. To endure means to remain strong in the midst of something. It does not specify whether that something is voluntary or not.

And "hope" doesn't just mean to want something that might or might not happen. In a Christian poetic context, I rather think it means a joyful expectation, even one that is completely assured.

However, more of the original text was used in Worship III than in The Hymnal 1982, and even more was restored in Gather 3 and Worship IV: let your foolish pride be still (st. 3); it guides you to a better home (st. 4); For those who humbly bear the cross one day will wear the glorious crown (st. 5),

This is a good thing.

It appears that many editors think that there are reasons, good ones.

Clearly.

I was just saying I couldn't think of any.

I meant that a little hyperbolically. But- I was kind of getting at:
Sometimes it's clear a text was changed for "PC" reasons: to avoid masculine pronouns or something like that. Someone may say that's a bad reason, but- at least it's a reason.

Likewise, correcting rhymes that have been lost to pronunciation changes. Or altering words that don't mean the same thing anymore ("awful," "adorable"). Good or bad- those are at least clear reasons.

On the face of it- I couldn't see any reasons.
If the explanations you provided were the reasons (and ex post facto explanations), then I guess I would say: I don't think those are very good reasons.

And, of course- they don't explain the 1982's editorial changes either, which are:
-altering the entire text from "thee/thou" to "you"
-removing references to pride, hell, and sin

I actually can imagine reasons for both of those. And I think they are bad reasons.

Particularly the first one, which just seems silly. It's not like the 1982 doesn't have a bunch of "thee" and "thou" all through it, or that Episcopalians weren't (especially 30 years ago) perfectly comfortable with so-called "archaic" language.

ronkrisman

@Adam: A few comments on what you wrote. You know that I value your contributions greatly.

It perhaps needs to be stated that "Take Up Your Cross" was not included in a GIA hymnal until Worship III (1986). So Catholics by and large did not resonate with earlier wordings, including all the "thee's" and "thou's."

This is one of my favorite hymns, and it is perhaps one of the richest texts with the theme of discipleship. IMO it's better to use a more contemporary syntax from The Hymnal 1982 - especially in view of the fact that Catholics by and large did not have this text in their hymnals until 25 years ago or so.

As Robert pointed out, there are different expressions of soteriology in scriptural texts. I can only imagine that the editors of The Hymnal 1982 changed "endure" to "accept" because it better expresses Christ's active engagement with evil and suffering. But that's only a guess on my part.

A hymnal companion that provided background info to editorial decisions about textual emendations would be most helpful, I agree. There was some discussion at the recent annual meeting of the Hymn Society in Richmond concerning the possible shape of GIA's hymnal companions to its four recent hymnals. Perhaps they should be WIKI-style online "publications."

Kathy

Is the second sentence in this paragraph supposed to follow from the first? It doesn't.

It perhaps needs to be stated that "Take Up Your Cross" was not included in a GIA hymnal until Worship III (1986). So Catholics by and large did not resonate with earlier wordings, including all the "thee's" and "thou's."

ronkrisman

What I was intending to say is that Catholics by and large did not know the hymn before 1986. So they would not have known the original text from an emended one when it was included in Worship III. Emendations would not have affected them as they may have for some members of the Episcopal Church USA.

Kathy

I see. I seem to remember singing it pre-1986 though, perhaps from a missalette.

IanW

The British national anthem is a hymn. Its 2nd verse runs:

O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall:
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all.

Unfortunately it is rarely sung.

ronkrisman

@IanW: Sung to MOSCOW? (Just kidding)

@Kathy: You may be correct. I just found "Take Up Your Cross in the 1984 People's Mass Book (WLP). It uses the same text found in Worship III.

Kathy

Could very well be. As I mentioned above, the amazing text Adam quoted was unknown to me until he rescued it from the trash.

tomjaw

The song "God bless our Pope!" is commonly sung in England but not the often omitted fifth verse:

For like the sparks of unseen fire
That spark along the magic wire,
From home to home, from heart to heart,
These words of countless children dart:

God bless our Pope!
God bless our Pope!
God bless our Pope!
The great, the good!

Adam Wood

A hymnal companion that provided background info to editorial decisions about textual emendations would be most helpful, I agree. There was some discussion at the recent annual meeting of the Hymn Society in Richmond concerning the possible shape of GIA's hymnal companions to its four recent hymnals. Perhaps they should be WIKI-style online "publications."

That would be a great idea.

IanW

@ronkrisman: AMERICA, surely?

Liam

I prefer My Country Tis of Thee to MOSCOW.

Adam Wood

Could very well be. As I mentioned above, the amazing text Adam quoted was unknown to me until he rescued it from the trash.

I'm glad I could help!

ronkrisman

I'm glad I could help!

Adam, you always help!

Speaking of help, how is Nikki's and your son? Is he ~~texting~~ teething yet?

IanW

@Liam: MOSCOW and AMERICA both call to mind SNOWDEN, a hymn-tune from the land of my Fathers.

Kathy

I don't know if I Want to Walk as a Child of the Light is obscure or not, but having sung it tonight for the first time, I would like to ask someone to please remove it from. my. brain.

Adam Wood

Ethan is great! Thanks for asking.

CharlesW

Kathy, that one is a real earworm.

ronkrisman

Yes, after all I Want to Walk as a Child of the Light is only included in 25 or so hymnals, including Evangelical Lutheran Worship, Lutheran Service Book, The Hymnal 1982, The United Methodist Hymnal, the Worshipping Church, Lift Up Your Hearts, Gather 3, Worship IV, etc., and slated for inclusion in another 5 or so within the next year or two. Certainly all those editors and denominations don’t know a good hymn when they see one. We shouldn’t be singing anything which recalls the presentation of the lighted candle at our baptism.

Kathy

Fr. Krisman, this is at least the second time in this thread when you've suggested that hymnal editors are authority figures whose judgment others should admire. Except for the 1982, more or less, I don't know why any of the hymnals on this list would lead anyone to that conclusion.

Kathy

Sorry, that wasn't fair. The United Methodist Hymnal is quite strong.

ronkrisman

Nope, authority is gained. We may be in agreement about that.

Gavin

"The United Methodist Hymnal is quite strong."

I disagree,

Kathy

I mean, it's not as bad as Worship IV or anything.

M. Jackson Osborn

I disagree strongly.
Authority is that which reveals authenticity.
Authority is not gained, it is or is not exercised.
Editors do not necessarily 'gain' authority from having been in positions of power for any length of time. A relative beginner may (or may not) speak with greater authority (and, hence, authenticity) than someone with great experience in wielding lordship in given matters.
Choosing insipid hymns which one may assume will have a great appeal to a swath of persons who are lacking in musical taste and literary judgment is not ipso facto authoritative. It is pandering.

Kathy

Back to topic, my favorite verse from For All the Saints:

And when the strife is fierce, the warfare long,
steals on the ear the distant triumph song,
and hearts are brave again, and arms are strong.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

Adam Wood

Except for the 1982, more or less, I don't know why any of the hymnals on this list would lead anyone to that conclusion.

Not even that one. 1940, and England's 1906.

1982 made a lot of weird decisions, which I my parish work reveals to me on a regular basis.

Kathy

Hymnals should be about two things:

-beauty
-the theological virtues.

That is all.

matthewj

What about ribbons? My hymnal wants ribbons.

CHGiffen

One of my favorite hymn texts, translated by Benjamin Webb (1854), of O amor quam exstaticus, from Apparuit benignitas (Anonymous) Latin text, 15 century:

O love, how deep, how broad, how high,
It fills the heart with ecstasy,
That God, the Son of God, should take
Our mortal form for mortals’ sake!

He sent no angel to our race
Of higher or of lower place,
But wore the robe of human frame
Himself, and to this lost world came.

For us baptized, for us He bore
His holy fast and hungered sore,
For us temptation sharp He knew;
For us the tempter overthrew.

For us He prayed; for us He taught;
For us His daily works He wrought;
By words and signs and actions thus
Still seeking not Himself, but us.

For us to wicked men betrayed,
Scourged, mocked, in purple robe arrayed,
He bore the shameful cross and death,
For us gave up His dying breath.

For us He rose from death again;
For us He went on high to reign;
For us He sent His Spirit here,
To guide, to strengthen, and to cheer.

To Him Whose boundless love has won
Salvation for us through His Son,
To God the Father, glory be
Both now and through eternity.

Key:
• Italic - text altered already in The Hymnal 1940.
• Underlined - beautiful stanza omitted already in The Hymnal 1940.
• Bold - the stanza that really tugs at my heart.

I love this hymn sung to DEUS TUORUM MILITUM, but I have also set it to my own isorythmic setting of OLD HUNDREDTH, with three harmonizations. The original first two stanzas are set to the first harmonization, the middle three stanzas to the more introspective second harmonization, and the final two stanzas to the brighter third harmonization.

Allan D

For the hymn "Alleluia! Alleluia! Let the Holy Anthem Rise", the 40th edition of the St. Basil Hymnal (copyright 1935) contains these stanzas, which are omitted in OCP's current edition of Breaking Bread:

Alleluia! Alleluia! He endur'd the knotted whips,
And the jeering of the rabble, and the scorn of mocking lips,
And the terrors of the gibbet upon which He would be slain:
But His death was only slumber; He is risen up again.

Alleluia! Alleluia! He has burst our prison bars,
He has lifted up the portals of our home beyond the stars;
He has won for us our freedom; 'neath His feet our foes are trod;
He has purchased back our birthright to the Kingdom of our God.

(And yes, I know many musicians hate this one, but our congregation loves to sing it! For me, it brings back happy childhood memories of Easter at my family's parish.)

SkirpR

(And yes, I know many musicians hate this one, but our congregation loves to sing it! For me, it brings back happy childhood memories of Easter at my family's parish.)

Likewise, and in my childhood parish, all the rhythms in this hymn were dotted, whether they were notated that way or not!

Chris Garton-Zavesky

Has anyone seen all the missing verses of Lift High the Cross?

Welcome to the MusicaSacra Forum!

Categories