Sometimes you need a good decadent Credo.

I've never thought about mixing and matching, but it's a great suggestion, and I'll look these combinations up. The possibilities are endless. Thanks!

To make things easier for our congregation we always sing the Gloria from Mass VIII and Credo III (since we've had some dear old folks request it after we sang a new Gloria one Sunday) and that probably helps provide some continuity for them.

My favorite Credo is I, but I'll have to look up that decadent Credo IV. Sounds very intriguing.

P.S. GregP, you'll have to try Masses II, V and VII someday. They are amazing.

To make things easier for our congregation we always sing the Gloria from Mass VIII and Credo III (since we've had some dear old folks request it after we sang a new Gloria one Sunday) and that probably helps provide some continuity for them.

We have some people in our congregation who felt the same way. I am of the mind, however, that "the treasure of inestimable value" should not and must not be limited to Gloria VIII and Credo III, and therefore we have embarked, with our priest's OK, on a project of eventually singing all 18 of these Masses. At a rate of 3 or 4 per year. That's at least a silver lining to the dismal reality of having almost all knowledge of the Chant eliminated from popular memory - no one can hold their breath and say, "I want the Missa de angelis!"

I eagerly look forward to learning II, V, VII, and XIII.

Apropos of not very much, I remember sitting in the workshop that Scott Turkington gave at Arlene and Jeffrey's parish in Auburn in 2005, and after Scott mentioned something about everyone being familiar with the Sanctus from Mass XVIII, he turned and asked, "How many Mass settings do you think there are?", and some wag in the Bass section (why is it always the Basses?), deadpanned, "At least 18."

If you want to try a truly decadent Credo, sing Credo VI at an incredibly fast tempo. Then you can a truly exciting overlook of the Catholic faith.

yeah, at a real clip Credo VI is crazy wonderful.

Part of my answer to this question is here. I also appreciate those settings of the Sanctus that potentially can move seamlessly from the sung Preface's final la: I*, III, IV, V*, VI*, VII, VIII**, XI**, XIII, XV**, XVI**, XVIII, ad lib. III.

*maybe
** if transposed

If I'm considering worldly time/ease of use/congregational singing, here are my (current) picks from the Graduale Simplex, many of which are not found in the Graduale Romanum:

• Kyrie simplex Va
• Mozarabic Gloria
• Ambrosian Credo
• Ambrosian Sanctus or Sanctus XIII
• Agnus simplex Vb

Ignoring the above considerations, I would align the movements of the Ordinary to a particular mode. Here's a Mode VIII suite you may never hear for a Mass:

• Kyrie ad lib IX
• Gloria ad lib I
• Sanctus ad lib III
• Agnus ad lib I

(One almost wonders why anyone continues to bother to write new Mass settings, sometimes...)

I would align the movements of the Ordinary to a particular mode.

Very interesting, Aristotle. I've often wondered why the different parts of a particular Mass setting were in different modes. So, I take it there are no Mass settings in the Kyriale in which all the parts are in the same mode?

Another question: what would be the benefit of having all the parts in the same mode? Continuity? Seamlessness?

Thanks for that tip, cgz. I was reading Fr. Adrian Fortescue's notes (on New Liturgical Movement) to his organist friend about how to accompany a Missa Cantata and he advised the same type of thing.

Are you accompanying the Ordinary or singing acapella? If you're accompanying the Ordinary, how can you know in advance what pitch the preface will end on? Would you have to accompany the Dominus vobiscum dialogue in order to give the priest the correct note to start the preface on? That's the only way I can think of to do it.

I don't have the necessary skill set to transpose on the spot or improvise an accompaniment. I remember watching my mother pick out the pitch very softly on the organ as the priest was singing and then transpose the accompaniment accordingly but I'm not at that level. (I could do it if you gave me a half an hour to prepare it, but not on the spot.)

Are you accompanying the Ordinary or singing acapella? If you're accompanying the Ordinary, how can you know in advance what pitch the preface will end on? Would you have to accompany the Dominus vobiscum dialogue in order to give the priest the correct note to start the preface on? That's the only way I can think of to do it.

I don't have the necessary skill set to transpose on the spot or improvise an accompaniment. I remember watching my mother pick out the pitch very softly on the organ as the priest was singing and then transpose the accompaniment accordingly but I'm not at that level. (I could do it if you gave me a half an hour to prepare it, but not on the spot.)

If your priest is reliable on holding pitch, you could very lightly, almost imperceptably intone the Preface Dialog - or in the OF, he could chant the Prayer Over the Gifts, and you could give him a tone for that. All without overtly accompanying anything.

Speaking of intoning (at a Missa Cantata) SkirpR, do you have any other helpful tips? Sometimes it's very hard to time things correctly. Every priest has a different routine and the worst feeling is when you've boldly intoned the Credo and there's a long pause before the priest picks it up.

I always thought the signal was when the priest had returned to the altar and replaced his maniple. Is that correct?

Thank you for the link to Fortescue's notes! This is an invaluable resource and something to strive for and makes the Missa Cantata truly a musical work of art.

In the first volume of Fr. Rossini's Liturgical Organist there are many examples of modulations and also cadences for the various modes, and I didn't fully realize how they could be used at Mass, but this dovetails with Fr. Fortescue's paradigm, I would imagine.

Bump. Question was posed: If you had a chance to put together a Mass where you could have the parts from any Ordinary chanted, which ones would you pick?

My answer:
Kyrie Clemens Rector
Gloria IV
Sanctus Ad Libitum III
Agnus Dei VI

Julie,

I had forgotten about this conversation, so I'm sorry I haven't answered your question yet.

a) I have been blessed with a series of musical clerics. They don't get everything right all the time, but they're remarkably consistent.

b) I would strenuously oppose accompanying the Sursum Corda. Congregations don't need the extra voice, clerics don't need the subtle jab, and I don't need the headache of trying to time an entry.

c) I think that we were singing Mass IX accompanied at the time I wrote that post, but there has been much dihydrous monoxide under that translateral conveyance.... and I still pursue the same ideas, whenever possible. If one can't get an exact pitch (for example, if the celebrant sings "in the cracks") the thing to do is to avoid all possible jarring. It's supposed to be the continuation of a conversation "sine fine dicentes Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabbaoth."

It might be easier to identify the ones that are least favorite since so many of the ordinary chants have their own characteristics that fit in different circumstances. If I were scheduling for a Mass that I was personally connected to, it would be very hard to select the specific chant for each section. Setting aside appeal of individual movements, there can also be something said for a setting with at least some sense of continuity throughout.

But as a purely theoretical exercise, my top 2 for each movement:

• Kyrie - Mass VI ... Ad Lib Kyrie 2 (Summe Deus)
• Gloria - Mass XIII ... Ad Lib Gloria 3 (this movement is probably the hardest for me to only select 2 settings!)
• Credo - Credo VI ... Credo IV
• Sanctus - Mass II ... Mass VIII
• Agnus Dei - Mass IV ... Mass IX

Here's a recording of a mensural Credo IV.

https://soundcloud.com/seanconnolly/credo-take-4-9-6-15

1896 Graduale Romanum.*

As an added bonus, Incardination is in this recording.