Haugen and Haas psalm settings
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Hello Everyone,

    My parish before I arrived was using the Haugen and Haas psalms from celebration series for the main psalm selection week to week and occasionally OCP respond and acclaim. Even if the antiphon was a variation of a specific psalm the alternate psalm was still used. (if the antiphon was: I believe I shall see the good of The Lord. the choir would expect the celebration series psalm: The Lord is my light and my salvation, which is liturgically wrong.) I believe their not wanting to be liturgically correct came down to laziness and a matter of convenience! The choir were so set in their ways and I had no pastoral support from the previous pastor, my hands were tied.

    I've since gone and made the radical change ( I have the new (3 years already) pastors supports 100%) to remove the Haugen and Haas psalms along with Respond and Acclaim and go new Gelineau and Guimont psalms based from Worship IV and Gather III. I believe that this was best moved musically speaking for the parish. I think it also shows that I want it to be done correctly and show that I care about my ministry.

    I've always found the Haas and Haugen quite lengthy for psalm liturgy. They almost felt like psalms songs rather then true psalms! Does anyone else feel it that way as well? Their length seems to take away from the liturgy of the word! The idea of moving to the Gelineau worked in my favor cause I was able to inform the choir that since new psalms translations came out, they are what we are allowed to use and only these new psalms.

    This leads to my question: I was shocked to find in the new Worship IV hymnal, the old texts on the Haugen and Haas psalms!! Why did Gelineau and Guimont have to change all their settings but Haugen and Haas were able to keep theirs??? I don't understand that!!

    Thanks for all your input!!
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Does anyone else feel it that way as well?


    I can't remember. At that point, I'm spacing out and keeping my head down as the lady warbles it with vibrato thick as cheese and doing the capital "T" pose. :)
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  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I never realized how lucky I am in having true control of the music ministry and pastoral support. These changes are definitely helping the music program to progress!! :-).
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    @musicman923: I am happy that you and your parish are using responsorial psalm settings from the lectionary sections of Gather 3 and Worship IV and set to Guimont and Gelineau tones, with psalm texts from The Revised Grail Psalms.

    Please allow me to address a few inaccuracies in what you wrote, since I do not think it is ever proper or ethical to attempt to persuade a parish to adopt a new approach to liturgical music if it is not based on the facts and on liturgical law. And the fact is this: The Revised Grail Psalms has been approved for liturgical use in the USA by the USCCB and confirmed by the Apostolic See, but it has not yet been mandated for use in the USA. In other words, it may be used now, but it does not have to be used until revised liturgical books (particularly the Lectionary for Mass) that include that psalm translation are published for the USA.

    That accounts for why publications from OCP and WLP and some newly-published hymnals legitimately still use the psalm translation from the New American Bible. That translation may continue to be used until revised liturgical books that incorporate The Revised Grail Psalms are published for the USA.

    GIA chose to use The Revised Grail Psalms in its four new hymnals now, because it could and so that those hymnals would not become obsolete in, say, five years when a new Lectionary for Mass using that translation may possibly be published. Missalette publishers do not have to worry about obsolescence, since their participation aids are only intended for a few months' or, at most, a year's use.

    A second inaccuracy in what you wrote is your implication that the particular responsorial psalm appointed by The Lectionary for Mass for a particular day is the only legitimate choice available. There are also seasonal responsorial psalms given by the same Lectionary for Mass. And the last paragraph of no. 61 of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal gives quite a number of other options for the responsorial psalm, starting with the Latin chant “Responsorial Gradual” (what a strange neologism!) from the Graduale Romanum. One of those options is “Psalms arranged in metrical form.” Such psalms, of course, are not going to be 100% “translations,” since some paraphrasing is going to be necessary just to get the text into a metrical form.

    As to your specific reference to psalms by Haugen and Haas from the GIA “Celebration” series that appear in Worship IV, some here on the forum may be interested in knowing that there are 13 such psalms and one canticle (Magnificat – the “Holy Is Your Name” setting by Haas). Personally I am not a great fan of these settings being used for the responsorial psalm, but, at the same time, I do not believe that the great latitude offered by GIRM, no. 61, rules out such use. And there are numerous other uses for these settings in both liturgical and devotional services - justifying their inclusion in Worship IV. Finally, the verses to these psalm settings are through-composed, so the texts from The Revised Grail Psalms could not be substituted.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    The rules in part. 61 are adapted by each national conference, so that the above rules well summarized and clarified by Fr Krisman are for the United States only. In Canada, the psalms in the Lectionary (NRSV adapted) are mandated, and the psalms in the CBW (Grail) are tolerated for singing, and nothing else is allowed.

    I think the term "Responsorial gradual" would be better called a "revivial" than a neologism, surely? Granted, the psalm verse after the epistle is called "gradual" in the older form, but "responsorium graduale" has never really gone out of use.
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  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    Thank you, Andrew, for adding that the wording of GIRM no. 61 that I quoted is that for the dioceses of he USA only.

    As to "responsorium graduale," I believe it is better to translate the term as "the Gradual responsory" or "the Gradual response." The adjective "responsorial," since it is so often used in "responsorial psalm," may lead some to think that this "responsorial gradual" has a refrain/antiphon that the entire assembly sings between psalm verses - which, of course, it does not.
  • The continual changes are a real "blessing" to publishers and are what are perpetuating the poor music that is churned out to fill the "need" of this "blessing".

    Few serious composers are about to write something that can very easily be abandoned when, "Oh, we are changing the translation again." or "We've decided to...."

    The best example of good intentions is the Graduale Simplex. Created to encourage the continuance of using chant and abandoned by almost all until Paul Ford stepped up to the "blessing" plate of Catholic publishing and did the right thing.

    If the church had mandated its use (they did translate it into English) we'd all be a lot better off today.
  • AP23AP23
    Posts: 119
    new psalms translations came out


    The psalms translations never changed. Just the Order of Mass and the Antiphons and prayers.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Or rather, a new psalm translation, the Revised Grail Psalter, came out about the same time as the implementation of the new Missal translation, but independently of it.

    As Fr. indicated above, the RGP is optional now in the US; it had already been adopted for the Office in certain countries (notably in an edition of the LOTH published in the wake of the synod for Africa).
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    [The RGP] had already been adopted for the Office in certain countries (notably in an edition of the LOTH published in the wake of the synod for Africa).


    It is valid for use in the Office in the US too, as the decree allowing it for use at Mass, more specifically allowed it for use in all liturgy in the US.
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    Going back to the original thought of whether the H&H settings can be used liturgically: my understanding is that, as the end of GIRM 61 says, "Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the Responsorial Psalm." The H&H settings are usually paraphrases of the Psalms, something that has been done in hymn writing since time immemorial. For example, "All People that on Earth Do Dwell" is a paraphrase of Psalm 100, but we don't dare think of using it at the time appointed for the Responsorial Psalm/Gradual.

    In my current parish, before I arrived they were in a situation much like @musicman923's, namely, that these settings were being used more or less indiscriminately. In the interim between the previous DOM's departure and my arrival, the parish did adopt the R&A for this year I believe as a sort-of "stop gap" measure. I have continued to use R&A and will do so for the remainder of the liturgical year until we switch music books (we're getting rid of Today's Missal/Music Issue and going to LTP's Sacred Song).

    I believe Fr. Krisman is right in saying that the H&H settings could have other uses. Indeed, I have retained a few of them to use at Communion, for example. Occasionally, I take a non-conforming setting and set the proper psalm verses (from Lectionary or RGP) to psalm-tones and use them that way. He is also right when he says changing the Gelineau & Guimont psalm texts to the RGP is practical for whenever a new edition of the Lectionary does come out.

    At least this is my interpretation of the situation, thinking about it while in my office on a slow Monday battling an inner ear infection.
  • AP23AP23
    Posts: 119
    Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the Responsorial Psalm.


    You know how sometimes, usually during the Easter season, the psalm has the refrain, or "Alleluia"? Well, when that happens, would it be fine to use a Gospel acclamation setting (with chanted verse), and then use the chant mode of the verse, to fit the verses of the psalm?
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    In my opinion, adapting a gospel acclamation for the psalm would be fine provided the psalm text was used. However, the Gregorian alleluias which are sung as the Gradual during Eastertide (surely the reason why the Paschal responsorial psalms have that optional response) are "special", very melismatic, very Easterly. I wouldn't use an "ordinary" Alleluia for the purpose.

    And then the second Alleluia for the Gospel should be different, different mode or speed or harmonization.
  • lmassery
    Posts: 422
    In some H&H settings that I have examined, the text is so remote from the orginal psalm text that it ought to be described as a song 'based on' the psalm, not a 'metrical paraphrase.'
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    In some H&H settings that I have examined, the text is so remote from the orginal psalm text that it ought to be described as a song 'based on' the psalm, not a 'metrical paraphrase.'

    @lmassery: Could you make more specific your reference to "some H&H settings," because I am not aware that any of their texts are "so remote" from an acceptable English translation.
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    Fr. Krisman - "Shepherd Me, O God" seems pretty remote from the source. I program it occasionally for Communion but would never use it for the RP.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I don't program it at all for anything. One of the "flower children" told me it is the 23rd Psalm. I replied, it isn't even close.
    Thanked by 3Spriggo Gavin marajoy
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    "Shepherd Me, O God" seems pretty remote from the source.

    That seems to be a fair observation. The refrain in particular departs from a literal translation of the first lines of Psalm 23. And H's verse 1 changes the Shepherd's action of leading and providing rest to "I rest... I walk." And H's verse 2 has "sing the music of your name."
  • lmassery
    Posts: 422
    the refrain to Haugen's psalm 91 "Be with me Lord When I am in trouble" seems to be only loosely connected to the psalm. Also the psalm should be in the second person, but this refrain turns it into a first person plea.

    How about Haas' psalm 138' "The Fragrance of Christ" - correct me if I'm wrong, but that refrain seems made up.

    One of my favorite contemporary songs to program for communion is Haas' Holy is Your Name - but alas it seems to me a remote paraphrase of the Magnificat. The opening line is "my soul is filled with joy as I sing to God my savior" - Is being 'filled with joy" really the same as 'Magnifying the Lord?' It is in the psalm section of Gather.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    How about Haas' psalm 138' "The Fragrance of Christ" - correct me if I'm wrong, but that refrain seems made up.


    Only the second half is "made up."

    "Let my prayer be directed as incense in thy sight; the lifting up of my hands, as evening sacrifice."
    -Psalm 141(140):2 (DR)

    Good song, but not a good responsorial Psalm.

    One of my favorite contemporary songs to program for communion is Haas' Holy is Your Name - but alas it seems to me a remote paraphrase of the Magnificat.


    Agree. Good piece. But not a Magnificat, in the liturgical sense. (That is, don't use it at Evening Prayer.) I use it as a congregational hymn (Communion, usually) and occasionally as a choir piece. (The refrain is gorgeous unaccompanied.)

    You should avoid it in congregations with a large Irish population- the tune is a secular Irish folk song (Wild Mountain Thyme) and you probably don't want people noticing that fact.
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  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    the refrain to Haugen's psalm 91 "Be with me Lord When I am in trouble" seems to be only loosely connected to the psalm.


    The first half of the refrain, which you quote, is actually the prescribed response text in the current US lectionary. I don't know what the Latin response or its literal translation off the top of my head.

    How about Haas' psalm 138' "The Fragrance of Christ" - correct me if I'm wrong, but that refrain seems made up.


    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I once read in the volume of Celebration Series "Psalms" that comes from is that antiphon is used in the dedication of a church. Why it was chosen as the "primary" response for that setting when two other antiphons that appear in the Sunday lectionary were also available, I don't know ("In the sight of the angels, I will sing your praises, Lord." and "Lord, on the day I called for help, you answered me.").
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Why it was chosen as the "primary" response for that setting when two other antiphons that appear in the Sunday lectionary were also available, I don't know ("In the sight of the angels, I will sing your praises, Lord." and "Lord, on the day I called for help, you answered me.").


    Both of those are included as optional refrains for that particular piece of music. I doubt that the fact they were numbered 1, 2, and 3, and that the Fragrance one is listed first in the score is indicative of anything other than David Haas likes it better personally. (Also, it's a more evocative title, which is good for business.)
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    The rules do seem to contradict each other: 1) a metrical psalm may be used 2) a hymn/song may not be used.

    So would "The King of Love My Shepherd Is" be considered a metrical psalm or a hymn, or both? I would say both, but then which rule takes precedence?