A suggestion for the next biggest chant project by CMAA/CCWatershed
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Still, to this day, there is no Liber Usualis for the Ordinary Form.

    We need a Liber Usualis for the Ordinary Form that is similar to the one for the Extraordinary Form, especially if we want Gregorian Chant to become manifest as the council had intended.

    Discuss.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    We certainly have all the components for the Mass - that's the Graduale Romanum.

    But I imagine a new Liber would be difficult, if not impossible.

    This is because what we don't have from the Church/Solesmes is a complete Antiphonale for the Liturgy of the Hours. Many people are working on this in various forms (myself included), but there are issues. The arrangement of antiphons in the 1983 Ordo Cantus Officii was altered somewhat with the release of the 2010 Antiphonale Romanum for Vespers of Sundays and Feasts, but the rest of the changes have not been released.

    Another problem is the four-week cycle of the OF Psalter makes it far more complicated than the EF one-week cycle of Psalms, and the size of a volume for chanting the hours would probably have to be split into several volumes just in and of itself.

    For example, to use the new Antiphonale Monasticum - which is for Benedictine not Roman usage - one needs to consult four separate volumes - AM1 Proper of Time, AM2 Psalter, AM3 Proper of Saints, plus the 1983 Liber Hymarius for the hymns and invitatories. There is yet another volume for Matins AM4, which has yet to be released.

    Some, like Steven van Roode are working on a Latin Antiphonale based only on 1983 OCO without any of the 2010 revisions (until they are released in full). I am working on a Latin/English version where I try to deduce some of the changes from consulting other sources (like the new Antiphonale Monasticum and Les Heures Gregoriennes).

    But tacking this onto a book also including all the music for Mass would be of a prohibitive size. Imagine combining the Lectionary and Missal for the OF like it is in the EF! There's a reason these are in separate books in the OF.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen smvanroode
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Perhaps just OoR/Lauds/ Vespers for the most important Feasts/Solemnities? In any case, the chants for the other rites could perhaps be included, along with litanies, psalms for processions, etc.?
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Good point SkirpR,

    It really annoys me that the OF was supposed to simplify the liturgy, but in so many ways, it has made it much more complicated and made liturgy appear to be not very important. I digress.

    I think the closest we get to the Liber for the OF at the moment is the Gregorian Missal. Of course, it does not have any antiphons/hymns/chants that are used outside of the Mass, and only facilitates Sundays and Solemnities. I know many seminarians also - I'll be one in a few years, God-willing - that are so frustrated at how hard it is to actually sing the Office and to sing propers; i.e. how many books they have to use and purchased along with many bashed about handouts and missallettes.

    ClemensRomanus,

    If we must miss out the parts for the office, it would not be the worst thing.
    There is too much in the Liber too set aside because of some difficulties with the Office. Moreover, I'd love to see on in English too (with English Chant), though that's a bit of a dream for now... let's try a universal Latin one first!

    God bless!
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Can I also add something, a post that I put on a thread about the best book for propers:

    Can I just bump this thread and maybe speak out and say it's time for CMAA or CCWatershed to maybe publish a Liber Usualis in English for the Ordinary Form? The Liber Usualis is the most handy book ever for the EF, and if there was an OF version it would delight many clerics, seminarians and musicians alike.

    Just a suggestion, after awilliams showed me his planned work on a book with Sunday Vespers and all the propers.

    For those who don't know, the Old Liber Usualis had the Order of Mass, all the Antiphons for specific liturgical occassions (Reception of the Body to the Church, For Ordinations, Confirmations etc.), all Ordinaries of the Mass, Antiphons to the B.V.M., The Propers for each Sunday, Solemnities and Feastdays, also for Ritual Masses. Alongside the Proper of Time, it had the Antiphons and Chants needed for the Divine Office on Sundays and Solemnities, and even special offices, such as the Office for the Dead. If there was a book that did this for the Ordinary Form - there isn't even a version in Latin published yet for the ordinary form - it would certainly boost the availability of chant to many parishes and people, considering it's all in one book just about.

    It's simply a suggestion, and I'm sure it's not the first time someone has said it, but I think the Liber Usualis needs to make a bold return.


    Just a bit more insight, that I had suggested a wee while back. :)
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I think the closest we get to the Liber for the OF at the moment is the Gregorian Missal ... only facilitates Sundays and Solemnities.


    If you're interested in all the proper chants for every possible OF Mass in the church year, purchase an OF Graduale Romanum. It's entirely in Latin, but it's not difficult to find what you'd need.
  • Jamie
    Posts: 40
    Yes, but the Gregorian Missal has the Prefaces, Collects, Ordo Missae etc.

    Thus, it is more like the Liber.

    Although, I do hope to buy myself a Graduale Romanum (1974)
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Ah, I see what you mean. Well, that would just make our imaginary OF Liber even bigger!
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    Physical size is unimportant, in an age when I can put 1000 books on my Kindle. Get the content created and free of ridiculous copyright barriers, and the rest is relatively straightforward.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    I'm not sure how feasible it would be, but there could be a book with OF Masses and the EF Office to try to make a modern day Liber... but it would get very complicated with the differences in calendars and the editor would have to make many choices which would likely anger the audience he/she was trying to reach.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    The Liber contained the readings, but we can count on them changing in a "few" years.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I believe that there is an order of sung compline published.

    A while ago I posted my version of the Nunc Dimmitis, according to the ICEL translation, where I adapted the melody in the Liber Usualis to the English Text, the idea being to make transition between the English and Latin as easy as possible.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    56 volumes
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    I believe that there is an order of sung compline published.

    Libreria Editrice Vaticana did publish a single volume for compline, but it is without music. A (not official) edition of Latin compline with Gregorian chant can be found here.

    Putting together an OF Liber Usualis is made difficult because of:
    - the number of choices and alternatives in the OF; for example: should the chants of the Graduale Simplex also be incorporated?
    - the lack of official chant books for some parts of the liturgy (LotH, for example)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Fr. Weber also has a good latin/english book for compline.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I believe that there is an order of sung compline published.


    May be referring to Fr. Weber's Latin-English edition of Compline. Unfortunately for purists like myself, many (but not all) of the Latin antiphons in Fr. Weber's book are his own settings of those in the Liturgia Horarum, rather than those specified in the Ordo Cantus Officii or derived from the corpus of Latin antiphons. While there is nothing objectively wrong with his book, I myself would have made some additional other choices.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    I was about to make the same comment, Richard! There are many neo-gregorian antiphons in Fr. Weber's book. In contrast, the Ad completorium in cantu Gregoriano I was reffering to, adheres to the chants prescribed for compline in the Ordo cantus officii.

    The lack of official chant books for the OF Liturgia Horarum is a great problem.
    Thanked by 2Ben CHGiffen