Looking for software opinions
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    Sibelius.

    Sib is easy, intuitive, and customizable in many regards. It let's you concentrate on composing and arranging while making the technology transparent. The beauty is that you remain in the realm of being an artist and creative without having to wrestle with being a technocrat.

    Like I have told all my children, "You can either build the instrument, or you can play it", usually referring to the difference between a Mac and a PC, but it is a similar comparison for applications that are geared toward a creative as opposed to a programmer. If you want to remain in the creative and make the technology 'disappear' into the background, Sib is the way to go.

    I became a Sibelius Ambassador for a while, doing workshops and such when it was fairly new, but not doing that any more. All the scores on my website (www.MyOpus.com) are created in Sib. Go to catalogue and then click on a title, and go to bottom of page to see pdf output.

    It is great for creating parts on the fly and simulations such as you see demonstrated on my site.

    Sib does exactly what you need with both creating score reductions from four parts, and for expanding a piano arrangement into choral parts. I can give you more info if you PM me.
  • The problems with Sibelius is that the customizability is much more limited and more difficult as you require extra plugins and steps rather than commands that can change the spacing on the fly, not to mention the almost $1000 price tag. Take a look at the LilyPond essay on engraving. It really highlights the quirks of hand engraving and how LilyPond attempts to recreate it.
    http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/essay/index.html
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    I've always liked Finale. I use Finale 2014.
    I add voices in, and take them out, as necessary, without too much hassle. The best plan is to start with all the voices necessary, and just hide/alter them as you go. It's frustrating when you have everything looking lovely, but then suddenly remember that you need an extra staff.
    Piano reductions are fairly simple to create - you just click to create "piano reduction."

    I've always disliked Sibelius. Since our computer lab in our Fine Arts Center in college only had Macs, they also only had Sibelius. Thus, I had to use it for any personal arranging, but also for required compositions. I hated it.

    I haven't tried Lilypond.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • stulte
    Posts: 355
    I personally use Noteflight. It's a cloud-based score editor that has a free and a paid version. I've found it to be VERY easy to learn to use. It also supports MusicXML files. www.noteflight.com
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 245
    I usually use Notion, mainly because it has a very capable iOS app, and I can switch between that and the Notion app on OS X ($150 price tag, I think). I'm not sure, however, about those layout changes; Notion does a lot but it is not nearly as powerful as Sibelius or Finale -- though for my purposes it is more than sufficient. A nice thing about Notion is the ability to set the keyboard shortcuts/numpad to behave like Sibelius or Finale if you like. I grew up using Sibelius (I had version 1.0 way back when!), so that was convenient.

    But usually, I am working in Linux, and so for quick projects I still often use Lilypond, which I really do love. I use Frescobaldi, which is a (free) "wrapper" for Lilypond and makes it quite a bit easier to use, because of the syntax highlighting, auto-completion, built-in MIDI player, score wizard, automatic lyric hyphenation, and the ability to view the code, log, and PDF all at the same time. And since the PDF is hyperlinked to the .ly file, you can just click a note and it will jump right to that place in the code. And, there are versions for Windows, OS X, and Linux.

    Admittedly, Lilypond by its very nature will come much easier to those with practical experience in object-oriented programming -- particularly when it comes to more obscure notation requirements formatting. But the basics (including the need presently requested) can be mastered by anyone with some patience.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Lilypond can sort of handle Gregorian notation, but not very well. It only makes sense to use it for that if you need to insert a few bars of square notes into a conventionally notated scores (as in the incipit example).

    I use both Lilypond and Gregorio, along with Pandoc and LaTeX, to produce liturgy programs without having to futz with a visual layout engine or pay for expensive proprietary software.
  • I bought Dorico (the Steinberg thing I mentioned above). The input process makes sense as a process, but it's radically different from Finale, so I haven't worked with it a whole lot. I think my next thing will be to import a xml file and see how pretty I can make it.
  • I still consider the results from Score to be the standard, but sadly it's no longer available for sale.

    I've been working with Dorico since it was released and it is going to be fantastic when it's a bit more feature complete. It's fantastic to be able to communicate directly with the head of the team working on it and get his feedback on feature requests. I look forward to seeing how the other contenders rise to the occasion...

    Because the client requested it, I'm doing a large engraving project (380 pages) in Finale and have really been impressed by the JW Lua plugin. I have been able to automate away the most time consuming parts of the process. I've also found some fantastic time savers in the process for entering 5-line chant in Finale—for as similar as it feels to the first version I used (98), it's really grown a lot in the last 15 years.
  • jefe
    Posts: 200
    In college I was a music copyist and made a living copying and arranging music with pencil scores and music pen parts. Later, with my College Professor discount, I purchased Sibelius 3, back in Medieval Times (around 2001) because I was told it was more accessible if you were not a techie and were running with a Mac. I'm not a techie. I wanted a program with the least amount of technical falderal between me and the notation. I now compose directly to Sibelius using no keyboard and no middle man. Then came upgrades to Sib.6.2 and lately Sib.7.5. About 10K score and part pages later with all kinds of music I guess I'm used to it and have nothing with which to compare. Shortcuts have become my best friend. I do have this observation. Previous to the Sib. Sellout, I liked the notation fonts better. They were a bit thinner and cleaner. The current versions are still intuitive and they've fixed a lot of niggling woes, but they've made a concerted effort to PC-ifie the language and herd the Mac folks toward the PC platform. I'm not liking that. Whatever program you decide on, it's the constant use that makes the process roll smoothly. If you only use the program occasionally, get one of the simpler programs. There is less to remember. I arrange or compose almost every day so the fingers just thump out what I'm hearing. I do have one suggestion for would be composers and arrangers. Get a large monitor so you can splay out the pages without piling them. I use a Mac 15" laptop and really miss the 30" monitor, especially when editing on the road.
    A woman in Voces angelorum asked me if we could record a happy birthday to her brother on her cell phone. I had a few minutes to think about it and came up with this little ditty in about 5 minutes: the amount of time it took my fingers to plunk it out. I didn't even have time to turn the sound up on the midi. Familiarity breeds. jefe
    Birthday antiphon in Gregorian Chant circa 2016 - Full Score.jpg
    1275 x 1650 - 193K
  • If you like saving money I'd do "Musescore," hands down.
    -FREE, very unlike Fin/Sib
    -No learning curve for simple stuff, unlike LilyPond (which is nevertheless a worthy alternative)
    -Round-note is WAY easier to do on MS than on uber-expensive Sibelius
    -Active development (unlike Sib), new features and handy little tools (e.g. snapshot tool lets you clip out bits of the score)

    If you like importing PDFs though then "Sibelius First," hands down. It's 100-ish, but i got it on eBay for $60 or $70 I think. The "PhotoScore Lite" plugin alone is worth the price of admission.
  • Geremia
    Posts: 269
    Check out the free LilyPond GUI editor Frescobaldi.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Lilypond is able to handle a piece that changes forces partway through. One approach would be to define all the parts from the start, with measures of rest where a voice is silent: then have Lilypond suppress the empty staves.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Finale, in any of its incarnations, can do this with ease. One approach, which is basically the one I use most often, is that described by CCooze above. Simply set up the score with staves for all of the various parts that will be used, and, after selecting measure to be hidden in each part, from the "Apply Staff Style to" item on the Staff menu, choose "13. Force Hide Staff, Collapse". Note: the measures don't have to be empty to hide them, which is often useful when preparing, say, a reduced conductor's or accompanist's score from a full score. This allows the most complete control over what staves are to be hidden or displayed.

    A second, faster method, which I also use when I don't need finer control, is to select a staff or staves with empty measures (or even select the entire score), and under the "Staff" menu, select "Hide Empty Staves" (if later you want to "unhide", you can select "Show Empty Staves").
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    If you are already comfortable with Finale light, they do still make another light version and and an even lighter free version.
    Based on this chart the middle version, Print Music, would do everything I needed, but since I already have the full version of Finale I just keep plugging along.

    I recently upgraded to the latest version since it had been several years. I like that I can export directly to a PDF now and the export to an audio file is a nice feature if you ever want to make practice tracks for your ensemble--not something I do all the time, but it's a nice tool.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 708
    I took a look at most of the software mentioned and settled on MuseScore. I have been very happy with it so far an found it very intuitive and it's more than capable for my needs. The learning curve was easy (for me) and I was up and being productive in a short time. The MuseScore forums are very friendly and helpful and the software documentation has been thought out to anticipate most needs and applications. I win-win in my book.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Round-note is WAY easier to do on MS than on uber-expensive Sibelius


    It is easy to do in both.

    In Sibelius the way to do it is write out the entire piece in modern quarter notes, "select all", and then use the keyboard shortcut to change notehead styles. On PC this is Shift+Alt+8 (or on a Mac, the squigly symbol in place of the Alt key).

    Sibelius has a lot of nice keyboard shortcuts that, once learned, make engraving super efficient. (I believe that MuseScore does as well, but I've not used it for a couple of years). The Exsultet could be fully engraved in stemless round notes within half an hour.

    I've used both softwares and found both to be useful and intuitive once you are familiar with the way things are laid out. If you have the means to purchase Sibelius, I highly recommend it... but MuseScore also has a lot to offer and doesn't come with a price tag.
  • From every perspective LilyPond is the superior piece of software. It avoids the irritating spacing and weird quirks of Sibelius, the downright wrong aspects of Finale, and many of the teething troubles of MuseScore. Can be infinitely customized, the file format is human-readable, the default appearance is far superior to any other software, and it's completely free.

    While the file format is initially a problem for many, once you learn the gist of how it works it's far more powerful, accurate, and easy-to-use than manually dragging and adjusting notes with the mouse. The choirs I've worked with and all of my clients all comment on the appearance and readability of my scores far beyond the usual standard of computer notation, and these kinds of results are far easier to achieve in LP.

    It's perhaps most important to understand that notation still has a human element for a reason. The default output of LP is far from perfect, even if it's better than anything else out there, and requires some degree of tweaking to look great. Conversely, many of the mainstream programs can nonetheless produce excellent results in the hands of a skilled engraver. My general consensus above all is that modern program + hands-off engraver = bad score, no matter what the tools used are.
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • I used to be an absolute MuseScore diehard but the lack of any sort of collision prevention led me to other options which eventually, through recommendation of friends, brought me to LilyPond which has been a blessing. It's just quicker anyways, and the Frescobaldi editor makes LP (easy choral) scores which would take many hours, even days in graphical editors, only take a few hours at the most.

    Thanked by 1dboothe