Vocal Improvisation during the Gloria
  • Last Sunday, while the "singers" were leading "Glory to God," Mass of Creation edition, I was surprised to hear improvised descants and harmonies coming through the speakers each time they went back to the "refrain." Is this proper or am I just finding one more thing to be annoyed about with my church's music?
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I think it's entirely proper to the style of music (i.e., secular popular song). When a songwriter writes a song with chord symbols, I believe that gives the keyboardist or guitarist permission to improvise. Improvising vocal harmony is also not foreign to this idiom, as it would be in a piece of composed music (unless specified by the composer). My question is, how does improvising a melody or harmony (much less through loud speakers) help to lead the congregation in singing as one? If it doesn't, perhaps the problem isn't with performing music according to its musical style, but with the musical style itself.
  • My question is, how does improvising a melody or harmony (much less through loud speakers) help to lead the congregation in singing as one? If it doesn't, perhaps the problem isn't with performing music according to its musical style, but with the musical style itself.


    You've hit two nails on their heads.

    1) I have tried to educate my cantors in the notion that if they're "up there" (by the altar, where the "music area" of the church is) on mics with the purpose of "leading the people in their singing," then it's totally inappropriate for them to sing anything other than the melody. Of course, I'm only the DM with years of experience and lots of accumulated knowledge on the subject, so I'm all wrong and should be ignored . . . which they do. Sometimes they'll sing "descants" and the like so loudly into their mics that the melody is entirely obscured.

    2) So much of the music of the contemporary idiom seems to be written with not just the option for having a miked "cantor" singing the melody (as the melody isn't even incorporated into the accompaniment), they seem to require it.

    And another thought comes to mind. How many of you have ever been approached by someone wanting to serve as an accompanist for Mass, only to have them explain that they don't read music, they prefer to play from the "guitar accompaniment book" so that they can just read the chords and play them on the piano? This means that they'll play whatever they want on the keyboard ("improvised" without the melody anywhere in the accompaniment) and either sing the melody themselves or rely on the cantor to do it.

    Chant is alien, polyphony is old-fashioned, the tenets and disciplines of the Faith are irrelevant, and music literacy is no longer necessary.

    St. Cecilia, pray for us!!!!
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Moreover, there seems to be no awareness that "the music of the Mass" could be different from the music of secular culture. To most people, it's just "music." There is no such thing to them as a special kind of music set apart specifically for sacred use.
  • thank you for your comments. I wish I could be as vocal about my displeasure with their OCP music as they (the regular singers) are with my schola's chant music . . . but then I'd look like the bad guy and they just can the whole sung mass thing right then and there. After our last sung mass for the Assumption, some of the regular singers complained to the DM about being "put off" by the Latin. I think they are feeling threatend honestly . . .
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Darth Linux, there's nothing wrong with improvising such music from a liturgical standpoint. I recall hiring a fellow organist as trumpet player for Christmas (he didn't have a midnight Mass) and he improvised some brilliant descants without my asking - it was great! Of course, leave it to an organist to do it right, eh? That said, one can debate the MERITS of improvising a descant given how it may confuse the congregation or the artistic merits of the improvisation. I'd say on the Mass of Creation Gloria, go nuts since everyone knows it anyway. You can accompany it in f# Major and most Catholics will still sing it correctly; it's built into their DNA by now.

    As far as cantors improvising descants for responsorial music, I'm not against it so long as there's still a clearly audible melody for the congregation to hear. I do have to wonder though what's up with such a lack of control over one's musicians that you can't get them to sing the right notes. Now I KNOW people want to do what they've always done or what THEY think is "neat". But at my last parish, if I asked a chorister or cantor to stop doing something or to do something, they usually obeyed. Sometimes it would take some repetition, and on occasion there might be questions after Mass, but by and large they did it. I didn't snap at a cantor and yell "DON'T SING THE HYMNS INTO THE MICROPHONE!" but I might approach them immediately after they "led" the offertory and say "Oh, I'm sorry, I must not have mentioned that you only need to be at the microphone for those bits you lead, namely the psalm, alleluia, and propers. Please, sit in the pews until you need to approach to sing. If you feel the need to provide some leadership, go ahead and step up to the rail and sing out strongly, that should help nicely!" If someone was improvising a descant or harmony, I'd tell them "I appreciate your initiative, but I'd prefer this hymn be sung in unison" or "That's not the correct harmony, but I'd be happy to teach you the correct one next time the hymn comes up." Never have I had someone directly disobey me, and if they did I think they'd only do it a few times before I told them their service was no longer needed. And this was with 5 cantors.

    I understand sparing people's egos, but to repeatedly sing a solo descant when directed not to? You just CAN'T let that happen, that's a direct attack on your ability to lead the music at the parish. We work with the singers and they work with us; you can't "agree to disagree" on something as simple as singing the melody.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Pes, that's the crux of many issues. I was thinking about it, and people DON'T have much of a sense of ritual music any more. Even the National Anthem is sometimes ignored or replaced. Music in Mass is the same as music anywhere else: entertainment. I was thinking, what about sermons? What are the other manifestations of public speaking left in our culture? Stand up comics and politicians come to mind. And how many priests, indeed, hold as their main rule not to displease people; keep it short, don't get moral, make everyone happy? We all know how Saint Saens responded "When I hear sermons in that style [of the opera comique] I will play music in that style." Well, now we have sermons in the vein of the motivational feel-good speaker, so why should we surprised when music does the same?
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I'd say on the Mass of Creation Gloria, go nuts since everyone knows it anyway. You can accompany it in f# Major and most Catholics will still sing it correctly; it's built into their DNA by now.


    I can honestly say that I cannot recall this melody even though we use the Holy almost every week at our "family" Mass (whatever that means). A local parish musician recently made a similar comment about Celtic Mass being part of our collective musical knowledge, and yet I've never been to a Mass at which it was sung. Now, I grew up in a very GIA-OCP oriented parish and even spent a year directing a 12 piece contemporary ensemble. It just goes to show that there is no music that is universally known, so why not stick to music that is at least universally available, such as the responses from the sacramentary, motets in the public domain, the chants of Jubilate Deo, etc.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I don't know the Celtic Mass either, only the Alleluia. Also I've NEVER heard Anthem or I Myself am the Bread of Life. Still, I'd say MOST Catholics know these forwards and backwards. I'd list all the repertoire about which I can say that, but it would make us all cry. I am speaking in generalities, of course, so there are many exceptions. But all the same, I stand by what I said: most Catholics know the MoC well enough to sing it with any distractions. Occasionally for my own amusement I'd crank the transposer and make them sing a high F on "with the Holy Spirit" - and they'd sing it and then complain about a B in another hymn...

    All this is NOT to say that I even advocate doing the MOC Gloria. I don't. In fact I advocate NOT doing it. I'm just saying that if you do it, a descant isn't going to throw off the congregation at all.
  • I'm not a huge fan of it. But at least it is organ based and sticks to the correct text. With some of the other "great music" out there, I'm not going to spend my "political capital" on a moratorium on the Mass of Creation.
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 314
    Music need not be sung in unison to lead an assembly. A mixed choir with soaring descants just makes my congregation roar even louder! And playing everything with the melody on top isn't necessary either -- free harmonizations on well-known hymns can really give new life to an old chestnut. So, while you must assert your authority as dictator of the choir (choirs are NOT democracies!) be sure to be a benevloent despot and permit your choir to sing well-rehearsed, well-crafted harmonies and descants. That being said, there certainly can be appropriate opportunities for improvisation, even vocal improvisation. I'd be curious to learn if there is any historical evidence of virtuosic improvisation during the verses of the gradual and alleluia chants?!
  • Olbash,

    The distinction you make is an important one . . . organ accompaniments (although I tend to use Noel Rawsthorne's books because the melody tends to stay in the top voice, as against T.T. Noble's stuff) and choral descants which are both un-miked and therefore unamplified, certainly do add (with ambient sound) to the glory and splendor of the music. Many of the members of my choir and others "in the pews" will tune in to the local broadcast of "Lessons and Carols" on Christmas Eve from Kings College and revel in the amazing, glorious sound. A single, amplified voice booming down through a PA system is just plain noise, and adds nothing to the splendor of the music being sung. Not only that, but it completely undoes any "help" that a "song leader" may add. Even the gurus of the NPM tend to agree with this.