Compensation for weddings and funerals
  • organrambo
    Posts: 1
    Hello...

    My pastor just announced to me (after I've started the job) that I'm expected to play funerals and weddings as part of my salary. I've always believed that weddings and funerals were additional compensation. What's the standard in most parishes? Thanks!!
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    In my parish, all weddings and funerals are exclusive of my contract, but I have a small parish and we don't have that many weddings and funerals during the year. I guess it would depend on the terms of your contract. Does compensation include weddings and funerals? Does the parish do a lot of them, and, therefore, it is part of your contract? I would take a look at the number of weddings and funerals in a given year and then go from there.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    It absolutely is standard for you to receive an additional stipend whenever you play for a funeral or wedding. I have seen job postings where they are *upfront* about this not being the case, and that is the only proper thing for an employer to do if they are including something in the job description that is decidedly non-standard.

    I would guess that many of us make several thousand dollars a year on weddings and funerals, and it would be a very big hit to a church musician's pocketbook to not get an extra stipend for the extra work that these liturgical celebrations require.

    There's not much you can do about it now that you've already started the job, I'm afraid. I guess this goes to show that it is very important to iron these things out before accepting the offer of employment.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    I do not receive extra compensation for weddings and funerals but that was part of the salary negotiations (which is still below NPM "standards"). I am curious though if the NPM salary guidelines assume that weddings and funerals are included in the salary or not. Many churches around here assume funerals to be part of the job but weddings are extra.

    From a logic standpoint, since music is required during a liturgy and it a service provided by the church, it would make sense for the compensation to be included in the salary. While an additional tip would be nice for a job well done or for extra rehearsal time with guest soloist etc., charging a couple or a family to play for a Mass would seem to give the impression that they could opt not to have it to save money.

    That being said, I know a lot of churches rely on this extra source of income to justify a lower salary. It can work either way, but it should be negotiated up front.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    From a logic standpoint, since music is required during a liturgy and it a service provided by the church, it would make sense for the compensation to be included in the salary.

    And from a logic standpoint, since taking my order and bringing my food to the table is required during a restaurant meal and it is a service provided by the restaurant, it would make sense for the compensation to be included in the wage.

    Yet, virtually universally, it is not, and waiters live on their tips.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen Earl_Grey Massimo Scapin francis
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    after I've started the job)


    This should have been discussed beforehand. Too late now, I suppose. Unless the compensation reflects the salary plus an average number of weddings and funerals above the wage.
    Thanked by 2francis M. Jackson Osborn
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I think it depends on what your salary is. I've seen positions where the base salary is advertised at 40-50k and funerals/weddings are STILL extra. I receive an additional stipend for each wedding and funeral, but it is all combined into one fee that is paid to the church so as to avoid the impression one could save money by not having music. The fee paid to the church does not change regardless of services provided. Then, the church pays me.
    My pastor told me that, at one point before my time, funerals and weddings were included in a much larger base salary. He pointed out that someone was almost always shafted because if the salary included 80 funerals and the church only got 60 that year, the church is stuck paying for 80. Conversely, if the church had 100, the organist would essentially be playing 20 for free. So they changed it to per diem.
    I would suggest finding out what common practice is in your city, and then see how your base salary compares to any churches that might have the same policy (if you can find out). Then see if your diocese or archdiocese have any guidelines in place to handle these situations.

    Also, I am almost certain that NPM and AGO guidelines assume funerals and weddings are NOT included because, if I'm not mistaken, they also provide guidelines for such services.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Our priests tell folks that the parish does not pay musicians for weddings and funerals. It is up to them to pay.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 537
    For me, funerals are part of my job (as full-time organist), and weddings are extra.

    If a tip is given at the funeral, I am allowed to keep it. The wedding fee is paid to the church as part of the usage fee and shows up on my paycheck automatically.
  • henry
    Posts: 244
    The diocesan personnel office told me that if I am full-time (35 hours per week) and the weddings and funerals are included in those 35 hours, then I should not be paid extra for them. My position is salaried, not per-Mass or rehearsal.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Extra here too. I am not full time though. I think I would call other organists in the diocese who work full time and see if they work under the same sort of contract.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 537
    Every parish is different, but I would have to neglect my existing responsibilities to include weddings in my 40 hours--so at least to me, it makes sense for them to be separate.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If you're salaried with 35-hours per week, with the assumptions that weddings and funerals will fall into that time frame, you might have to explain that because funerals come up suddenly and with only short notice, that it means you may be forced to neglect other duties to cater for this need.

    Perhaps you should suggest to them that it is unfair that priests get a stipend for weddings and the organist does not.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    At my old job, the church had an agreement with local funeral homes that they'd charge extra on the overall fee and that would go to the organist. For weddings, it was up to the couple to pay the organist directly.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    A stipend for weddings and funerals is all but universal. There are (so I've heard) some churches which include these stipends in the organists salary (which doesn't seem to be proportionately larger). These churches are wierd, and are taking advantage of thier musicians. This matter is one of the most important ones to be worked out and agrreed upon and put in any contract or agreement before one accepts any position.
    Thanked by 3melofluent Gavin francis
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    I agree that parishes need to work this out with their directors individually, but I've never understood why they get in the way like this. I mean, the parishes themselves aren't paying for the wedding or funeral musicians, are they? That stipend almost always comes from the couple or the funeral home, respectively.
    Thanked by 2melofluent francis
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Four parish merge, mother church 6K families, second 2K, third: new n/a; fourth: mission. 18 weekend Masses. Can you imagine how many funerals go on here? I can practically say a funeral organist would approach 35 hours alone just on those per week. Nope, not gonna happen.
  • JaredOstermann
    Posts: 488
    Yes - extra stipends for weddings and funerals are almost universal. That is the professional standard in our field, and it is safe to say that anything else is an unusual exception. That said, many pastors have not experienced "the field" of church music, and so have a sense only for a few places. I think it is important to let the pastor know what the standard is, but also understand that it is not necessarily self-evident to them.

    A logical case is:

    I work full-time.
    In a week with no funerals, I work at least 40 hours per week.
    I have at least 40 hours per week of work to do.
    When a funeral comes up, it is played either
    a) on my day off or at a time (evening) when I don't work
    b) during my working hours

    In the first case, extra compensation should be obvious.

    In the second case, the funeral takes up two hours (one to prepare music, line up a cantor, and warm up with them, and one for the funeral) that I would have spent on other work. Thus, that work has to be done at another time. The key point is that, even if they occur during "office hours", funerals displace other work. There are only so many hours in the day. If you have a deadline coming up and there also happen to be three funerals that week, this gets to be a serious problem. You end up doing the critical work by staying late or coming in on your day off. We all know this is a regular part of life as a church musician. The stipend compensates for this extra work.

    The larger problem is the perception that we don't actually have work to do during the week, as church musicians. This has to be cleared up before the above case makes sense.

    It is a very important issue, as the dollar figures and demands on time can be significant (especially in this age of 4,000 family parishes).
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    And here I thought working more than 40 hours per week without overtime compensation and having to play funerals on ones day off was just par for the course. And that's all for a salary less than NPM standards after more than 10 years of experience! I guess I really am being taken advantage of.

    I once submitted the NPM worksheet for remuneration and was basically laughed at. And yet...it seems like a lot of parishes are offering even less salary (which is why I'm still where I am) and/or are considering the job to be only "part time" to avoid that pesky health insurance.

  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    considering the job to be only "part time" to avoid that pesky health insurance.


    Yeah.

    Churches are also in the habit of pretending people are 1099 contractors, in pretty much direct violation of both the spirit and letter of employment law.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I only wish the churches in my area were able to pay along the NPM guidelines...
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • JaredOstermann
    Posts: 488
    I think that the "day off" question cuts both ways, though. I believe that in hiring a music director, the pastor has a right to expect that funerals will be covered by that person. But on the flip side the organist is compensated somewhat for the requirement of showing up or disrupting his/her work schedule. So yes, playing on your day off is par for the course. But so is being compensated.
  • JaredOstermann
    Posts: 488
    I forgot to mention a very important consideration, as you discuss this with your pastor. Namely: is the parish still charging the family or funeral home for your services? The funeral home usually (as boilerplate) includes a music fee in the package. What happens to that money if it is not paid to the musicians?

    I can see some merit (at least in the idea) in not paying the organist for the funerals of active parishioners - AND ALSO - not charging those parishioners for the music. The assumption being that their tithes help pay your salary, and then you provide them with the service of music at their funeral. This is still problematic, though, just given the workload at a parish and the disruption to your work and vacation schedule due to funerals. In addition, the cantor does not work for the church, and they almost always have to come in on a weekday morning during work hours. It would be extremely difficult to find cantors for funerals, as a rule, without a stipend.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    their tithes

    ROFLcopters!
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    It depends on whether your job is full-time or part-time. I am also music teacher at another Catholic school, and have to take personal time to do funerals at my parish where I'm DM. That means having to lose my personal time or losing the income for the hours I'm gone (and both parishes are far apart from each other, which means traveling time). In this case, I make sure my check is on the organ prior to my sitting down to play.

    If you are full-time with a decent salary and benefits, then I think funerals should be included in your salary. Weddings, on the other hand, should be compensated separately and included in the wedding budget and should be paid the night of the rehearsal.
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