Cantors- a paid profession??
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    For what it's worth, my mother tells me that, during the days of the "old Mass", my grandfather and other cantors would stand in front of the congregation at Mass and "conduct" the congregation in singing. At least in her church.


    FWIW, I witnessed this at St. Sulpice in Paris back in the summer of 2010.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    My first communion was about 20 years ago. My "cynically imposed" memory is that I hated it, and all of my friends hated it. If we had the option (and I think I recall that I asked), we would not have done it. I'd call that force or coercion.
    My hypothesis as a churchman observing such carryings-on is that kids enjoy having a role at church, but they don't enjoy having a show made of them.

    Your memories are both colored by circumstances particular to your church, your "mentors," and most of all over a quarter of century of past time having passed, Gavin. And the unfortunate experience you perceived THEN and carried forth to your memories now have had no small role in forming the "churchman" you are now, of whom I respect greatly. However, you do and cannot speak for evey or all circumstances in all parishes in 2013, and you have only half the life time experiences of me to resort to cynicism, which you have demonstrated above and before. But one would hope for a bit of wisdom and circumspection to have also informed you that "though the body is One, it is of many parts." You work on the thyroid, I'll work on the kidneys.
    Adam, mindful of what I've said above, since first communions became a duty of mine going FT in 05, I've never come close to having to utter those ridiculous words. What I will grant you is that the poor classroom teachers, even their principals, and worst of all the DRE's that go down to LAREC and shop for the package deal, still dominate the scene. Well, true pastoral musicians, liturgists and informed laity, will you step up and challenge the status quo?
    I suggest a moratorium on speaking of your own personal experiences as proof of either universal success or failure to launch.

    PS. It also helps if you've been an accredited teacher at all levels, K-8, middle school, high schoool and college 2/4 for most of your career.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    As an accredited teacher for many years, I can tell you that each class can have its own unique personality. I have known classes that were sweet and cooperative and loved to sing at first communion, or other such events. I have also known classes that were hell on wheels, couldn't stand each other or anyone else, fought continually, and hated and fought every event they were asked to be a part of. The chemistry in a specific class can be all the way from excellent to terrible. What Gavin has said is likely true for his group at that time. After all, we are many parts, but all one body, or so said Frankenstein. Don't we all know what that body looked like, since we seem to be into body references tonight.
  • elaine60elaine60
    Posts: 85
    Yep-hate that I have at First Communion no choice(I'm just the accompanist) as to the children reading the readings, prayers of the faithful, bringing gifts up, singing a meditation song, etc, etc While we are suppose to be ministering to them at this very special time.
  • Mark HuseyMark Husey
    Posts: 192
    I found this looking for a quote from Sacrosanctum Concilium, and it just made sense to copy and paste. Read it.

    http://www.adoremus.org/0703Soloists.html
    Thanked by 1HeitorCaballero
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    Thankfully my own first communion ca. 1991-1992 was uneventful. However, I know a church I used to attend in my early college years had their First Communion class perform a liturgical dance recently, as seen in pictures a friend took.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Gavin wrote:
    NO.

    but forgot the Grumpy Cat image.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood Mark Husey
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Pax, Charles. The only time(s) I've heard first communicants sing well, they were facing the sanctuary and the Person toward whom the song was directed; and they sang a familiar devotional hymn that was often used in the parish anyway.

    The most recent first communicants I heard, though, in another church, didn't sing much. They were facing the congregation -- an intimidating experience for many kids -- and they sang some more or less unknown ditty chosen by a religious-ed teacher, a song they'd never heard before, and will likely never hear again, not a piece of standard rep by any means. So it was an event not really integrated into their life as worshipping Catholics.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Adam Wood
  • HeitorCaballero
    Posts: 92
    Thank you Mark Husey. The choir should be our focus. From a musical standpoint, congregational singing and "soloist" do not (should not) match. I will admit, having a loud sound coming out of a microphone is very comforting for everyone. Congregational singing is more challenging and more difficult to achieve without a good organist and a good organ. Yet, it is more in accord with the idea of church. Priests should save money from paid cantors and invest it on section leaders for a good choir.
    Thanked by 1Mark Husey
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    Chonak wrote:

    but forgot the Grumpy Cat image.


    Rule of thumb: whenever we have one of these heated threads, always have a spare Grumpy Cat in case of emergency. Can everyone remember that? :)
  • formeruser
    Posts: 22
    Grrrrrr.....the organ(ist) leads the singing...period....crank up the Tuba Mirabilis and go for it! Believe me the "people" will follow....moving on.
    Thanked by 2Gavin CharlesW
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,478
    You can always use mine:
    http://musicforsunday.com/images/grumpy-cat-no.jpg
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