American Catholicism And How Its TenTacles Strangle Liturgy
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Ventricles. So what? (purple)
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    cenacles. (half rhyme for the right word)
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Spectacles
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Every time I see "tenacles," I smile. It's somehow more accurate misspelled.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Gavin
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Every time I see "tenacles," I smile. It's somehow more accurate misspelled.

    Those tenacles are an eerie sort of manacles.
    Thanked by 2Kathy JulieColl
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Pinacles.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Fixed

    Ten Tacles

    No matter how you spell it, the excuse to admit 'hymns' is still strangling the liturgy.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Agreed. But, here we are, the GIRM is what it is, and now all we can do is ensure that the hymns we do have are good hymns.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    62. As We have said before, besides those things that are intimately associated with the Church's sacred liturgy, there are also popular religious hymns which derive their origin from the liturgical chant itself. Most of these are written in the language of the people. Since these are closely related to the mentality and temperament of individual national groups, they differ considerably among themselves according to the character of different races and localities.

    63. If hymns of this sort are to bring spiritual fruit and advantage to the Christian people, they must be in full conformity with the doctrine of the Catholic faith. They must also express and explain that doctrine accurately. Likewise they must use plain language and simple melody and must be free from violent and vain excess of words. Despite the fact that they are short and easy, they should manifest a religious dignity and seriousness. When they are fashioned in this way these sacred canticles, born as they are from the most profound depths of the people's soul, deeply move the emotions and spirit and stir up pious sentiments. When they are sung at religious rites by a great crowd of people singing as with one voice, they are powerful in raising the minds of the faithful to higher things.

    64. As we have written above, such hymns cannot be used in Solemn High Masses without the express permission of the Holy See. Nevertheless at Masses that are not sung solemnly these hymns can be a powerful aid in keeping the faithful from attending the Holy Sacrifice like dumb and idle spectators. They can help to make the faithful accompany the sacred services both mentally and vocally and to join their own piety to the prayers of the priest. This happens when these hymns are properly adapted to the individual parts of the Mass, as We rejoice to know is being done in many parts of the Catholic world.

    65. In rites that are not completely liturgical religious hymns of this kind - when, as We have said, they are endowed with the right qualities - can be of great help in the salutary work of attracting the Christian people and enlightening them, in imbuing them with sincere piety and filling them with holy joy. They can produce these effects not only within churches, but outside of them also, especially on the occasion of pious processions and pilgrimages to shrines and at the time of national or international congresses. They can be especially useful, as experience has shown, in the work of instructing boys and girls in Catholic truth, in societies for youth and in meetings of pious associations.

    66. Hence We can do no less than urge you, venerable brethren, to foster and promote diligently popular religious singing of this kind in the dioceses entrusted to you. There is among you no lack of experts in this field to gather hymns of this sort into one collection, where this has not already been done, so that all of the faithful can learn them more easily, memorize them and sing them correctly.
    Musica Sacrae
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,396
    Rentables
    Sentinels (Florida pronunciation)
    Gentitals
    Identicals (as in, she had several sets of twins, even two that were identicals)
    Benchtables = some children's pronunciation of "vegetables" (I kid you not)
  • Oh no. Melo is edging toward


    Big Tent Catholicism!
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Kathy

    You are one of the few if not the ONLY writer of orthodox, theologically well consructed hymn texts that I know. You are one in a million, and most likely more rare than that. Par 62-66 is a well intentioned encouragement to the likes of you and I, I being one of a handful who have labored to master the TRUE craft of hymn composition.

    The reality is that one out of a thousand hymns that are composed in our day and age are even worthy if the liturgy, yet ALL AND ALMOST ANY 'hymn' is admitted to the liturgy without scruples. The 'hymn' (not the ones you and I compose) is IMHO, the single greatest offender against sacred music in the Latin rite, by far.

    The only path back to sanity is to ban hymns except for the best ones (aka the 1940) and to admit them only by careful scrutiny by a well formed team of sound personnel who understand theology and sacred music theory. It should take years to approve a hymn, and it should be clear for what particular liturgy (day in the Roman calendar) it is appropriate to be used.

    Stop Liturgical Abuse. Now.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    This entire subject is discussed in Thomas Day's book "Why Catholics Can't Sing"
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    The pope, curia, bishops and chanceries have no appetite to take on a bureaucratic mission whose marginal returns are big net negative for them (the faithful who will be pleased is a far smaller group than the other) that will be expressed in significantly reduced income for the Church.

    That's the brutal reality.

    Oh, and way fewer musicians employed by the Church, for that matter.

    Be careful what you pray for.
    Thanked by 2Spriggo CharlesW
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Stop Liturgical Abuse. Now.


    A new CMAA bumper sticker?
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    The problem with the (Western) Church is exactly what it has always been: Original Sin.

    More recently, the problem with the Church in the US and Western Europe is affluence--or, a bit deeper, the "sanctification" of affluence endorsed by the Protestants followed by "we're wealthy, so we can't be wrong."

    Hymns, even good ones, are not the problem per se. After all, the Borgia Popes didn't sing hymns at Mass.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    No it's not a conspiracy in that a cabal secretly meets and goes "Muahaha! How can we continue to make the liturgy as mawkish, cloying, and as unserious as possible?" That this has happened and is happening across America without deliberate conspirators makes it more creepy and pernicious, not less.

    But I thank God for our enemies. As secular culture goes more and more hostile to the Faith, the wheat will be separated from the chaff.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Another chicken and egg scenario?

    Is the Faith weakened by poor music or is the poor music a result of a lack of Faith? Is music the cause or the effect? Perhaps a little of both, I think. And by music I mean the gamut of what is played in Church on Sunday.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    No it's not a conspiracy in that a cabal secretly meets and goes "Muahaha! How can we continue to make the liturgy as mawkish, cloying, and as unserious as possible?"


    Actually, this is how I begin all of my meetings.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Actually, this is how I begin all of my meetings.


    I knew it! And the Freemasons are poisoning the village well! :D
  • Ruth Lapeyre
    Posts: 341
    Ooops, better not think that rhyme!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Venom Annibale doth curse the tongue to swell.