Question: Gloria and Credo at EF Votive Mass?
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Are the Gloria and Credo to be sung at an EF Votive Mass of the Sacred Heart?
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Here's what B. Andrew Mills says in Psallite Sapienter concerning the Gloria at a Missa Cantata:

    "If the vestments are white or red, the Gloria is sung."

    "If the vestments are violet, rose or black, the Gloria is omitted."

    "If the vestments are green, and it's a Sunday, the Gloria is sung."

    "If the vestments are green and it's a weekday, the Gloria is omitted."

    Concerning the Credo, it is sung on Sundays and on certain feasts. He says to consult an altar missal and the word "Credo" will be printed after the Gospel text if it is to be included in that day's Mass.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    If red or white, to sing it's right.
    (Excepting Palms or Friday night)

    Pink, purple, black- you best cut back,
    The rites a "glory" that day lack.

    With green o'er rabbat, the us'ual habit
    is sing it only on the Sabbit.
    Thanked by 3JulieColl CHGiffen veromary
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Bravo, Adam! I'm impressed; I really am. : )

    (Although I can just imagine the looks if I ever recited your cute little verse in public--on the odd chance that someone even brought up the subject, that is.)
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    Are the Gloria and Credo to be sung at an EF Votive Mass of the Sacred Heart?

    There's not enough information in your question to answer it concretely.

    The following is all according to the 1962 Rubrics, which are different than the earlier ones.

    It depends on the class of the votive.

    The Creed is said in first class votive Masses. The EF Mass of the Sacred Heart cannot be a first class votive without an indult from the Holy See. So it is almost certainly not to be said in your Mass. The Gloria is said in first class votives.

    On the External Solemnity of the Sacred Heart celebrated on Sunday, the votive Mass of the Sacred Heart is second class. Second class votives don't have a creed, except that when they are said on Sundays they do. So the External Solemnity of the Sacred Heart celebrated on Sunday does. The Gloria is said in second class votives.

    The First Friday Mass of the Sacred Heart is a third class votive Mass in churches where additional devotions to the Sacred Heart are held. The Gloria is said or sung (the Creed is not as above).

    The regular votive Mass of the Sacred Heart is a fourth class votive Mass (celebrated on fourth class days. This is also the class of the Mass when it is celebrated on fourth class Fridays and additional devotions to the Sacred Heart are not held.) There is no Gloria and no Creed.

    (There are some other possible cases I haven't addressed, like a votive Mass in a sanctuary dedicated to the Sacred Heart.)
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    This is great information. I actually was going to look some of this up for an upcoming Missa Cantata.

    Hope you don't mind more questions, Jahaza. Can a votive Mass of the Sacred Heart be held on a weekday other than Friday? If not, what votive Masses can be said on a Wednesday?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    (addition...)

    And if you're wearing Lutheran Blue,
    I really don't care which you do.

    image
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Hahaha! You really got me with your coda, and you know, that blue kind of grows on you.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    grows on you

    like mold?
  • Patricia Cecilia
    Posts: 400
    JulieColl--in the EF, a votive Masses may be said on any fourth class feria, in which case the feria is not commemorated (no second Collect and Postcommunion). There are three votive Masses which may also displace fourth class Saturdays of Our Lady and third class feasts: first Thursday or first Saturday, one Mass of Christ the King Eternal High Priest; first Friday, two Masses of the Sacred Heart; and first Saturday, Mass of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In order to displace third class feasts, each of those observances may be said if and when there are "special exercises of piety" offered on those days.

    There are quite a few other caveats regarding those three Masses. The best description I have found, by far, are the notes in the FSSP Ordo (in English, because my Latin is pretty good but rubrics in Latin make my head spin). There are sections on votive Masses and Masses for the Dead in the front, and in the monthly calendar section there are extensive notes for all the days in that month, with the options clearly spelled out (including which Vespers when).

    My musical-liturgical life is trimodal: Anglican RCL, EF, and NO, so my head swims on a regular basis :-) and the FSSP Ordo, the Episcopal Choirmaster's Handbook (older versions when the 'one true hymnal', the 1940, was still included), and my CTS MR3 hand missal, coupled with my Dayrunner, are always at hand.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    My head is swimming too just reading this, Patricia, but thanks so much for the explanation. I never realized the rules for ferial masses were so complex, and I don't wonder that you carry your books around with you. You might even want to write Adam's poem in for reference. It's quite catchy.

    Thanks for the info @ the FSSP Ordo so I'll know where to head for more answers.

    Hope you don't mind one more question: If there was to be an EF Missa Cantata on the third Wednesday in June, what mass options would you have?
  • Patricia Cecilia
    Posts: 400
    19 June, III class feast of St. Julianna of Falconieri, Virgin. White. Gloria, no Credo. Commons of Virgins; Common Preface. SS. Gervase and Protase are commemorated at Low Mass only. (Your priest should know what that means; it doesn't affect the music, unless your parish is in Milan, where they are the patrons and their feast becomes a I class feast with its propers [Martyrs].) As it is a third class feast and not on Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, nothing else can supersede it. This is the universal calendar; various Orders' calendars may have saints of their Order, so if your parish is run by an Order, consult their calendar.

    (Adam's poem was great, but I have those colors in my blood; my late mother was both an accomplished liturgical embroiderer and the head of the altar guild for decades in the church in which I was raised, so I did double-duty as musician and altar-guild-girl. :-)

    The funniest part is that the EF and Anglican calendars are almost identical, although the lectionaries are no longer the same, which means I often have to plan two very different sets of music in addition to the propers in each place; it's the OF calendar that throws the wrench in most often. That whole Sundays 'in Easter' versus 'of Easter' and Sundays after Pentecost versus Sundays in Ordinary Time...Lent and Advent are the easiest!
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    St. Julianna---that's my name. What a nice coincidence! I'm looking up in my Liber Brevior the Propers for the Commons of a Virgin, and I assume St. Julianna would be a "Virgin, not a Martyr" since the color is white. Is that correct?

    This is incredibly helpful; I had no idea where to look to find the propers for a Missa Cantata on a weekday.

    Wow! I'd love to hear more about your mother's needlework. I have a very good friend who is an art historian and something of an expert on vestments and she's taught me so much about them. (All I ever had experience with was the polyester variety.)

    God bless and thanks again, Patricia.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    There is an index for weekday propers associated with the Ferial English Propers project. For the most part during ordinary time they are taken from the preceeding Sunday. Although this week is week vii of ordinary time, despite pentecost and next week will be week viii despite Trinity Sunday.

    Today I was informed that the votive mass of the sacred heart has a Gloria foe diocese in Australia, but no Credo.
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