Charles, the Fisk IS really nice. If you wanted to, and you ever find yourself near Cleveland, I could put you in touch with one of the "ideologues who run the department" and I'm sure they would be happy to show it to you and let you play! hahaha

I don't necessarily agree with the shrieking. The only organ I ever played that shrieked was a tiny tracker at my undergrad school built by a not-famous builder. That thing was HORRIBLE! But I've never experienced an instrument like that at Oberlin. I think they are pretty much all musical.

Well hopefully that changes sometime. It'd be nice to meet you.

Yes, I'm very lucky. I've only worked with Todd a little bit thus far, mainly surrounding my audition to CIM, but as I've gotten to know him, I've found that not only is he amazingly talented but has a great personality and sense of humor as well.

I think the next two years are going to be a BLAST ... unlike most of undergrad ...

I've been accused of playing Bach almost too much; this weekend will be Langlais and Mendelssohn. Next weekend Widor and Guilmant.

But for some reason, as much as I tell myself that I should like French classical music, because it is very "Catholic," as in written by Catholics for mass, I just don't care for it that much.

I don't know why but there's something "clean" and "clear" about Bach's music that I am drawn to. I'm sure that says something about me, but I'm not sure what.

I probably would like Bach more, if so much of his music had not been forced on me in college. His Lutheranism doesn't help, either, since some of his music is questionable for Catholic use. However, I do play some of his works, just not too many. I play French classical and French Romantic because I like the music, but there are many other types of music I like as well. JKF Fischer, Walther, Karg-Elert are some I play, too. I have always had a liking for the works of Flor Peeters but I can't explain why.

Walther was a Lutheran ... why don't you have something against his Lutheranism?

Just asking.

>>a little unsure why one pile of notes will be Protestant and another series of notes written a few hundred miles away would be Catholic notes

I've wondered the same thing, but I always assumed I just didn't know any better...

by a despicable Lutheran!

Despicable Lutheran? Really? Really? "LOL" aside, this seems rather disingenuous to me.

As a Roman Catholic convert, at the ripe age of 42, from Methodism, tempered by strong Anglican, Lutheran, and Ukrainian Catholic influences, I find it very troubling that some here belittle, denigrate, and otherwise slam people of other faiths, especially when such people, whether long dead or very much alive, are still our brothers and sisters in Christ who may not have had the blessing of faith as we see it, but still do not deserve derogatory treatment.

Another factor is that I don't like the sound of some of the instruments from North Germany, or the organ reproductions of that period in this country.

I am still not quite sure why the North German style came to be seen as the ne plus ultra of the Baroque organ movement. I think there's good chance that the rather "tart" sounding Schnitger-style northern organ wasn't really JSB's tonal ideal either. (Some instruments built at the peak of the revival took this style to extremes and resulted in organs that seem have gone well past tart to just plain acidic.)

Bach played on, say, a Silberman instrument is quite a different thing.

To be fair any contrapuntal music on some early 20th century organs can be rather like hearing Erik Satie transcribed for a Sousaphone quartet - it's probably all rather clever but completely misses the point.

I do wonder if the almost painfully bright sound of the North German style was so fundamentally different to what was common and usual that it became seen as an ideal to aim for rather than being one possible outcome of many?

"I am still not quite sure why the North German style came to be seen as the ne plus ultra of the Baroque organ movement. I think there's good chance that the rather "tart" sounding Schnitger-style northern organ wasn't really JSB's tonal ideal either"
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Once the Iron Curtain came down and East Germany opened up, scholars, organists, and organ builders from the west were able to study and play extant 17th and 18th century organs in Saxony and Thurungia ("Bach Country"). This essay by Stephen Bicknell explains it much better than I ever could (click on link below to read):

http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/JSB&organ.html

As far as I can tell, the only Schnitger organ JS Bach played was at the Jacobikrche in Hamburg where he applied for the organist's post. He did not get the position because he did not (or would not) pay the church 4000 Marks!

Thanks to James Kibbie at the University of Michigan, the entire works of J. S. Bach have been recorded and are available for free listening and downloading. Various organs of the period are employed including instruments by Schnitger, Silbermann, Hildebrandt, Trost, and Bielfeldt. All are wonderful organs and Kibbie plays them with great style. Have a listen:

http://www.blockmrecords.org/bach/


Yet another treat. Here's part of Boelmann's Suite Gothique played on the Hildebrandt organ in Naumburg. I like the sound, but then again I've heard Langlais and Messiaen played on a Silbermann, so the combination doesn't sound so odd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmVKoPFQLvU

Yet another treat. Here's part of Boelmann's Suite Gothique played on the Hildebrandt organ in Naumburg. I like the sound, but then again I've heard Langlais and Messiaen played on a Silbermann, so the combination doesn't sound so odd:

I like the sound, too. I could live happily with that organ.

There are several misunderstandings that need to be cleared up.

"Catholic" organs didn't start accompanying congregational singing until relatively late.

The large west-end baroque organs in France played alternatim pieces and opening and closing voluntaries; the small orgues du choeur in the chancel accompanied the Chant.

In the 19th century, the schola disappeared, and the French Organ Mass took on its familiar Entree-Offertory-Elevation-Communion-Sortie form, as found in Tournemire's L'Orgue Mystique.

Nor can we look to "Lutheran" organs for guidance in building an organ to accompany congregational singing. As late as Bach's time, the congregation sang the chorales a cappella; the organist played a composed or improvised chorale-prelude to signal which chorale was to be sung, and to give the pitch.

Bach's few written-out chorale accompaniments are of interest because at Muhlhausen, they sang the chorales with organ, but that was the exception, not the rule.

If one looks at the final chorales of the cantatas, they were NOT intended to be sung by the congregation. Neither were the accompanied chorales in the Passions ... because of the high pitches, if for no other reason.

Spanish and Portuguese organs played alternatim and "battle" pieces.

Italian baroque organs were small, and gently voiced. They played alternatim pieces.

It's unfortunate that Cavaille-Coll was never permitted to build his massive west-end organ for St. Peter's in Rome. The difficulty of leading congregational singing in the Basilica post Vatican II is obvious ... the chancel organ is fair-sized, and boldly voiced, but it simply gets lost when the Basilica is full.

Having one organ, usually in the west gallery, to do EVERYTHING, probably originated in English and Irish Roman Catholic churches in the 19th century.

I would propose that 19th century English and American organs are probably the best models for organs to lead congregational singing. They were far from "tubby," and American builders knew how to build for dry acoustics.

The "tubbiness" came with electric action, fan blowers, and the tonal ideas of Hope-Jones (and others), and produced the "orchestral" organ. No longer restrained by the limitations of size, placement, and the maximum wind-pressure that the tracker action would allow before the key action became too heavy, the sky was the limit ... vide the seven-manual Midmer-Losh behemoth in Atlantic City ... the highest wind-pressure there is 100 inches (!).

Bud,

Many thanks for an excellent post! The virtues and advantages of 19th century American tracker organs are lost on many organists these days. This Hook & Hastings organ rebuilt by Bradley Rule of Newmarket, TN is a fine example of a small 19th century workhorse tracker organ capable of accommodating just about any music you want to sling on the music stand! Have a look:

http://www.covenanthouston.org/our-organ.html

and a listen:

http://www.covenanthouston.org/organ-music.html

All this from a 9 rank organ. Hats off to the Hooks and Mr. Hastings!

As for the proposed Cavaille-Coll in St. Peter's, Rome, the links for the stop list and a picture are below:

http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/props/rome.htm

Well, the St Peter's specs from PIPORG-L didn't transfer very well here, but it is just as well since the Naumburg Hildebrandt interests me more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GGFkFZJM-Y

The Case library has the proposal/prospectus for this organ, and I've noted it as something to be digitized, as apparently it hasn't been by anyone else.

Resurrecting an old thread, but my May 2014 copy of "The Diapason" arrived yesterday. It noted that the Georgetown Bedient was relocated to Mary, Queen of Peace Catholic Church of Cleveland, Ohio. Has anyone heard it, or know of any future YouTube videos that might be posted? I am curious as to how it sounds there.