There are a lot of really good people doing really bad music...Poor written, weak lyrics....
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,609
    How do we reach them without scaring them off??
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    One idea: take them to a colloquium. Some people just need exposure to good church music.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    Find people who used to be in column A, but have moved to column B, and find out what made them change their minds.

    I can tell you I was won over by:
    1. JT's infectious enthusiasm and good will
    2. the contents of the Parish Book of Chant
    3. the increasingly intolerable goings-on of people who agree with me


    (2) has recently been updated, woohoo.
    (1) is an example more of us could follow.
    (3) will, unfortunately, continue to take care of itself.

    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Having only recently got into this, for me it was key to realise what the documents of Vatican II really asked for. i'm more of a catechist than a liturgist - so my idea at the moment is to use my skill there to help people study the ACTUAL documents and help people make the same discovery for themselves. I also work best with children, hence a new initiative of combined singing lessons ala Ward with some Eucharistic Adoration. Raise a generation who know what chant sounds like and love it - fix the problem in no more than 20-40 years, a snip in terms of the lifetime of the church.
    Thanked by 6chonak Jenny CHGiffen Earl_Grey Gavin canadash
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    There are 2 groups:

    1) People who do bad music because they have to

    2) Those who do it because they want to.

    For 1), show them that others are doing better music, and give them the resources. Someone who can teach themselves a simple melody and a copy of SEP can run an entire parish music program.

    For 2), get them involved with good music. A lot of the "strummers" are actually very fine musicians with good taste. They will get excited to sing Palestrina, though they may not care to program it for Mass. But slowly, the more they get of it, the more they'll want it.

    Of course, this entire thread is based on the idea that we're doing good music, ourselves.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn Scott_W CHGiffen
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    @frogman noel,

    The very best thing we can do is to create excellent and prayerful liturgies at our local parishes, like Dr. Theodore Marier did at his parish or Msgr. Richard Schuler did at his. One of Schuler's students was made a Bishop ... and was just appointed head of OCP.

    I would be curious to know what you're doing at your local church, frogman. How big is your current choir? Is your parish 'conservative' musically? What music did you sing last Sunday? How did it go? Are people being drawn more to prayer? Do you have a supportive priest? Are you organist, conductor, or both? And so forth.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    1) People who do bad music because they have to


    Yes! To Gavin you listen. Don't assume that because someone is playing bad music that they are in favor of it. I used to attend a Maronite liturgy which had sublime aramaic chanting for the ordinary. The hymns? Schutte/Haugen/Haas with electric bass and other assorted inappropriate instruments. Let me tell you--if you think those hymns are jarringly out of place in a Roman rite, you should hear them in the Maronite. Blech! Anyway, afterwards I mentioned it to the organist who replied, "I've been fighting that stuff for thirty years." That's a beaten down ally, but an ally nonetheless. Recruit him into your conspiracies of Truth, Beauty, and Goodness. :D
    Thanked by 4Andrew Motyka ContraBombarde Gavin CHGiffen
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    "That's a beaten down ally, but an ally nonetheless."

    Here's a beaten down Ally, but an Ally nonetheless :)

    (Sorry, couldn't resist)
    Anyways, I certainly hope one doesn't judge me by all of the music I play either.
    Thanked by 3ContraBombarde irishtenor elaine60
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    If you judge us by our iniquities, O Lord who could stand?
    Thanked by 3Ally ryand Gavin
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Honestly, I think they play "bad" music because they have no idea what "good" music is. The colloquium changed my mind. I went to music school and we had a "chapel choir" which sang "good" church music, but we were rarely let into the Catholic churches. I didn't even know this was what we were supposed to be singing in the church. "Gather" is what is in the pews in many churches around here. I still play "bad" music, because it is what is in the pews and what is expected, though it is changing a little at a time. It is what "moves" people and it is what they know and like.

    Education and dissemenation are key and you can't do these without help from the diocese. In my opinion, you need good organists willing to teach young people in liturgy and theory, and these lessons need to be provided by the church.

    In Slovenia, (tiny country - easy to get about) they had a program where kids who had talent in piano and singing would get bussed to a local community church every Saturday morning where they would get organ lessons, theory lessons and lessons in liturgy and church teaching all for minimal cost. The students would have to sing and play at their local parishes. They have a fabulous choir retreat for the students in the mountains with daily Mass, recitals, confession, and outdoor choir rehearsals. Students want to be part of it. It is exciting and fun and costs next to nothing, simultaneously raising faithful Catholic kids on "good" music which will come to fruition in the next generation.
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