Kyrie attributed to St. Hildegard
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 497
    A few years ago, having snagged a copy of the Liber Usualis (Paroissien Romain) off eBay, I found a leaflet inserted in its pages with notation for "No. 19 : Messe de Sainte Hildegarde". The Kyrie of this Mass is attributed to St. Hildegard, while the rest is anonymous adaptations of melodies she composed for other texts. You may find a transcription of this Mass in the Kyriale section of the Sacred Music page here.
    Thanked by 1Felicity
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I find the presence of the diminished fourth rather interesting. In the middle ages it was called "the devil in the music".
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 497
    hm, would you care to elaborate? My understanding is that the "bad" interval was the tritone.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    I think he meant either diminished fifth or augmented fourth.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,210
    Hm, the only fourths and fifths I see are all perfect. Am I missing something?
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Agree with CHGiffen.
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    For the sake of comparison, here is the original manuscript. The attribution of the Kyrie to Hildegard is accurate, whether the transcription is accurate you can decide for yourself.

    Edit: I don't know how to get that link to open to the correct spot, but the Kyrie is on p. 472.
    Thanked by 3Arthur Connick CHGiffen Felicity
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 497
    Robert, many thanks for the link! When I was singing through my version, the "re" on the "-ison" cadences sounded improbable, and I see it's also a little doubtful based on the manuscript.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    fa to te all the way, thus no tritones need be slain.
    The chant is typically Hildegarde, ornate and of great tessitura. Would be nice to do, but counter-intuitive if you want the PIPs involved.
  • Josh
    Posts: 103
    I found a reference recently to the effect that it was Dom Pothier who published, first his edition of her Kyrie from the manuscript, then his adaptation of one of St Hildegard's melodies to fit the text of the Gloria, and lastly, by 1909, his compilation of her Kyrie with his adaptations of her melodies to the other parts of the Mass, to form the "Messe de Sainte Hildegarde".

    Did other Solesmes monks produce settings like this? Dom Pothier, who also composed Sanctus X, as well as Sanctus ad lib. III and Agnus Dei ad lib. II, and unblushingly inserted them into the official Vatican Kyriale, was certainly confident enough in his Mass of St Hildegard to give it a number, XIX, as if it were on a par with the eighteen in the Kyriale. I know that the three Dumont Masses in the style of plainchant were also published as supplements to the chant books; are there still more Masses, of whatever source, that were likewise issued?
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I wrote one a few years ago (and performed it) : Missa Kyrie Conditor Universae Omnium Eleison. I'll see if I can find it.

    You can also find some links to other French Messes du Plainchant on this thread: http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/6567/henri-du-mont-messe-royale-where-to-find-music/p1
  • Ted
    Posts: 205
    For those who are interested, it may be downloaded from here along with many other interesting chants:

    http://www.institute-christ-king.org/latin-mass-resources/sacred-music/
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 497
    Josh - you mention a reference to the effect that Dom Pothier published adaptations of St. Hildegard's melodies for the Gloria, etc., Would you be so kind as to post the references in this thread?
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 357
    In music history class we were taught
    if it has a tritone, it's probably Hildegarde's.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Josh
    Posts: 103
    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XKlRAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA274&dq=hildegard+pothier&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kqv5U6n9BM7o8AXCmYK4Dw&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hildegard%20pothier&f=false
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Am reviving this thread since I was curious when Gregp mentioned it. This looks a bit challenging. I'm not familiar with the eyebrow-shaped figure over some of the notes in the Kyrie. Is that an episema?
    www.institute-christ-king.org_uploads_music_Kyriale_MassHildegarde_lg.pdf
    216K
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 497
    The shapes you refer to are episemas. In the early 20th century, Solesmes maintained that the rhythmic signs in their editions were protected by copyright. Other publishers incorporating rhythmic indications into the notation style of the Vatican Edition invented their own symbols.
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    That's fascinating, Arthur. I can understand the monks' desire for autonomy, but I imagine such a proprietary attitude might have complicated and impeded the spread of Gregorian chant to some degree.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    I see you found this, JulieColl. Arthur is a great hero for doing all this work. I'm sure I'm not the only one who uses that site extensively.

    Re: the St. Hildegard Mass. As an amateur group, we did find it a bit strenuous, but we sang it for two months. As Melo, said, "ornate and of great tessitura".
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    I've always admired Arthur's contributions to the forum, but I didn't know the propers on the Institute's website were his work. We're quite attached to this format, too. I sometimes use my Liber Brevior, but the large font is so much easier to assimilate and follow, and I don't think it's just because I'm a bit near-sighted, either. I guess it's the same principle behind giving beginning readers books with large font. It just makes much more of a pedagogical impact, I guess.

    It's awesome that your schola sang the Hildegarde Mass---that's a real feather in your cap and I'll bet you learned a lot of invaluable things along the way. It's kind of like the note attached to one of Frescobaldi's works in my organ book which goes something like "He who devotes much time and effort to this piece will find it of no small value."
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