Orthodox view of organ in Divine Liturgy
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,209
    This discussion was created from comments split from: "P&W" music with orthodox, non-banal texts.

  • There are some who support the usage of an organ because it makes the praying and divine service less boring. If for these people praying is boring, than they might consider not praying at all. One may recommend them to go see a musical play, a movie, or just go fishing. A prayer is a dialogue with God, asking him for forgiveness and salvation… A person might just imagine this situation: “You come to your mother or father to ask them for forgiveness for something”. Does one need a guitar or an accordion in hand to do that? Why? If in one’s request for forgiveness (a prayer) there is not enough sincerity, will the musical accompaniment will be able to compensate that? No, it will probably mask that insincerity, but not form the one to whom one is praying. What about us why should we cheat ourselves?
    In the Orthodoxy a human being is looked at as the most perfect instrument ,that must be tempered. For that, just like a guitar or any other instrument there needs to be a long and strenuous practice. That practice does not require one’s personal will but a will of God. This practice requires humility, forgiveness, not being hypocoristic but to honestly look at oneself as the first of the sinners. Just like our faithful grandmothers taught us: Praying, fasting, and suffering. Then there will be no desire “to better” the divine service that was commanded to us by the holy fathers, the best of the representative of the church, which was founded by our God Lord Jesus Christ himself.
    To determine why Catholics and Protestants use musical instruments in the churches, that should be discussed separately. In the end, if they have established such tradition for centuries, let them keep it, since the purity of the church they chose not to keep. Looking back at the history of our Orthodox church it is difficult to imagine that during the divine service there will be playing of an organ, a guitar, or a violin orchestra. That the Holy Communion will be accommodated by Rock music, like it is done in certain Protestant sects. Orthodox chants reflect the Orthodox life, a godlike life, a life with God. Orthodox chants help us to undergo that or the other event of the earthly life of Jesus Christ. Those are the gloomy chants of the holy week and those of full joy like the Paschal chants. Orthodoxy is not just emotional, it is first of all spirituality, that unity with the holy spirit. The real Orthodox chants like the Byzantine or Old Slavonic famous chants and others ideally represent the essence of Orthodoxy; mainly unity, secondly freedom in all and love. Early fathers saw instrumental music to lead to dancing and other passions that destroy the humility of the Christian life.
    St. Basil the Great says: “Of the necessary to life which furnish a concrete result there is carpentry, which produces the chair; architecture, the house; shipbuilding; the ship, tailoring, the garment, forging, the blades. Of useless arts there is harp playing, dancing, flute playing of which, when the operation cease, the result disappears with it. And indeed, according to the word of the apostle, the result of these is destruction.”
    John Chrysostom says: “Marriage is accounted and honorable thing both by us and by those without ; and it is honorable. But when marriages are solemnized such a number of ridiculous circumstances take place as ye shall hear of immediately; because the most part, possessed and beguiled by custom, are not even aware of their absurdity, but need others to teach them. For dancing, and cymbals, and flutes, and shameful words and songs, and drunkenness, and revellings, and all the Devil’s great help of garbage is then introduced.”
    “David formerly sang songs, also today we sing hymns. He had a lyre with lifeless strings the church has a lyre with living strings. Our tongues are the strings of the lyre with a different tone indeed but more in accordance with piety. Here there is no need for the cithara, or for stretched strings, or for the plectrum, or for art, or for yourself become a cithara, mortifying the members of the flesh and a full harmony of mind and body. For when the flesh is no longer lust against the spirit, but has submitted to its orders and has been led at length into the best and most admirable paths, than will you create a spiritual melody.” John Chrysostom exposition of psalms 41, (381-398A.D.)
    Clement of Alexandria says: “Leave the pipe to the shepherd the flute to the men who are in fear of goods and are intent on their idol-worshiping. Such musical instrument must be excluded form our wineless feasts, for they are more suited for beast and for the class of men that is least capable of reason than for men…In general, we must completely eliminate every such base sight or sound-in a word, everything immodest that strikes, the senses (for this is an abuse of the senses)-if we would avoid pleasures that merely fascinate the eye or ear, and emasculate.”
    Both Origen and Eusebius explain he Psalm 33:2, “Give thanks to the Lord on the harp; with the ten stringed psaltery chant His praises” as the harp meaning the soul, and the ten-stringed psaltery being a body with 5 senses and 5 faculties.
    Eusebius (as historical witness): “Of old at eh time those of the circumcision were worshiping with symbols and types it was not inappropriate to send up hymns to God with the psalterion and cithara and to do this on Sabbath days… We render our hymn with a living psalterion and a living cithara with spiritual songs. The unison voices of Christians would be more acceptable to God than any musical instrument. Accordingly in all the churches of God, united in soul and attitude, with one mind and in agreement of faith and piety we send up a unison melody in the words of the Psalms.” (Commentary on Psalms 91)
    All of the beauty of our church services is concluded in texts of the holy chants. The text, is only capable of becoming possession of the praying when it is clearly pronounced by the human voice. Sounds of an organ undoubtedly darken and hide from the praying all the beauty and loftiness incorporated by the song-creating thoughts. From this point of view, besides harm an organ is incapable of bringing anything else into an Orthodox church services. Instead of introducing an organ into an Orthodox church to falsely improve the singing, we should put all of our efforts in to raising singing in the church that is common to the whole people. Only this path will bring our people to conscious participation in the church service, development of our choir. For two thousand years the Orthodox church has functioned without an organ and to bring in such an instrument into the church divides people. Psychology of the Orthodox people is unable to deal with such a shock. The motives of these heretic renovations are unclear. Have we not learned our history, that any apostasy does not lead to anything good and positive. Human singing involves a soul, which brings depth and mobility to the Orthodox chants thus making choir a higher form of art.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,209
    Welcome to the forum, tverskoy. I noticed that you posted this commentary on two different discussion pages. Since both discussions were no longer active, I moved your commentary to a new page of its own.
  • The use of the organ in the western church has its origins as an aid to singing plainchant. Basically, a lot of people sang quite badly and out of tune, so an instrument with reliable tuning and the ability to sustain sounds to help people tune their singing was needed. From merely playing the melodies of the chant, other features of singing came in such as the use of drone notes and "organum" the practice of singing in open 5ths. Just as these features of singing lead to polyphony, they also lead to organ music.

    It became a common practice to play some organ music during liturgies at points without singing or prayers aloud to discourage people from chatting or generally making noise during the liturgies.

    To this day, the primary purpose of the organ should be to support singing. This is why in Lent the use of organ solos is forbidden and only permitted to assist in singing. Plainchant is of the first and foremost importance in liturgy, followed by polyphony and hymnody.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    As an Eastern Catholic, my church does not use the organ. As a DM in a Latin Rite church, I do play the organ. The organ is not part of tradition in the East, but it is traditional in the West. The two liturgies developed in different cultures, and trying to compare the two, or use one to attack the other, is beyond silly, I think.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,479
    I wish that we could just respect the validity of the traditions of East as West as the 'two lungs of the church' (JPII). I am sorry, but some of this article is just silly. Do we really think that the harp mentioned by David is ” as the harp meaning the soul, and the ten-stringed psaltery being a body with 5 senses and 5 faculties?"
    I am sure I will be shot down, but I have frequently encountered this almost fundamentalist view in the Orthodox culture. It seems to me that more than ever, East and West must be united in out message against the erosion of the culture around us.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,209
    The author posted the same piece at another forum on the net -- also tacking it onto a long-dormant discussion thread, as he did here.

    Perhaps he wrote it for some other purpose and is just reposting it online.
  • I am moved by this statement:

    For two thousand years the Orthodox church has functioned without an organ and to bring in such an instrument into the church divides people. Psychology of the Orthodox people is unable to deal with such a shock.


    Although I feel that she/he who wrote this was not talking about the Roman church and its bringing in instruments into the church dividing people, it seems to apply to our situation today.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Except the hiccup of "our wineless feasts," I found the screed fascinating. (I do have to wonder if their feasts, wineless they may be, may have fountains of Stolichnya, having actually been to Russia for more than a week.) But the tone of the screed is just as intoxicating to the rational mind as the wine which the Lord said gives us joy. I mean no offense to my brother other Charles, but to speak of the Church's other lung as being devoid of division by the purity represented in this utopian paean, one doesn't even need to enumerate the patriarchies, etc. One only needs to look at the villification of Metropolitan Hilarion by his own confreres in his own church.
    Glass houses.
    L'chaim!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    There is plenty of division to go around, both between the individual eastern churches, and between the overall eastern and western churches. I still find battling over the traditions of the two a waste of time. The eastern and western churches developed in different places and cultures, so why would anyone expect them to do things the same? Generally speaking, the east doesn't use instruments in Divine Liturgy, and the west does. What is the issue?
    Thanked by 3lautzef ryand Blaise
  • I should be as equally sad to see the organ become used in Oriental liturgy as I would to see it abolished in Anglican Use liturgy. It doesn't belong there. There is no native literature for it, and I doubt that there are very many Orthodox musicians who are skilled organists. It is a genre which is foreign to Oriental worship; as foreign as it is native to western liturgy.