Hymnal Reviews

Adam Wood

francis-

I was about to write another post explaining such and such and my opinion on whatever, but- I think such energy would be misplaced, considering the bond of charity that I believe we share.

You and I disagree on which developments were "organic" and which were "manufactured." Since (in my opinion, of course) this is really more art than science, I'm content to say that this is a matter of interpretation (over which people can differ and discuss) and not a matter of fact (over which reasonable people should agree).

Of course, that difference of interpretation does both stem from and contribute to other differences of opinion (such as the relative "merit" of one form of the Liturgy over another, or particulars like ad orientem vs. ad populam).

However- the more important opinion, I believe, is the one that both of us (and most all here) completely agree on:

The revival of, and engagement with, our Catholic Liturgical heritage, especially in terms of music, is of utmost importance to the spiritual and cultural health of the Church and the People in it.

E_A_Fulhorst

Back in the day of Gregory the Great, wasn't the Roman Rite the Rite of the diocese of Rome? And weren't his actions pretty much like Trent: a consolidation of wild local growth into a coherent liturgy with slight developments here and there?

So it depends on your definition of organic development. Reid and others mean by the phrase slow, steady, pruning and grafting with respect to good theology and liturgical tradition. This more than anywhere else is where the Novus Ordo (largely) fails.

- Scrapping the lectionary
- Scrapping the entrance rite
- Scrapping Psalm 25 (Didn't Jungmann think well of the Lavabo?)
- Proliferation upon proliferation of options
&c.

Now, what was done with the Ite Missa Est is a good example of what should have been done with the rest of the Mass --- alas.

Bruce E. Ford

Replacing the old biddings and collects at the end of the Liturgy of the Word with a Litany added to the entrance rite was not a minor adjustment or a slight development. The fact that the litany soon disappeared, leaving the Roman rite without a synaxis intercession, suggests that it was a lamentable change. The restoration of a general intercession at the end of the Liturgy of the Word in the new rite was a highly desirable restoration.

Jungmann traces the development of the old Roman Mass lectionary. The value of preserving in toto a lectionary that often reflected no underlying rationale pales in comparison to the value of exposing the people to more of the scriptures. The old lectionary assignments for many important days of the church year survive in the new lectionary. Very few of the faithful remembered what readings the old lectionary had assigned to the Eleventh Sunday After Pentecost in the old lectionary and fewer had been perturbed by the change

The entrance rite was not scrapped. In apparent contradiction of the conciliar mandate for "noble simplicity," it was instead cluttered. Instead of being moved to the sacristy, the private preparatory prayers of the minsters were made part of the public rite. A return to Introit-Kyrie-(Gloria)-Salutation--Collect would, in my view, be a great improvement. I

Psalm 25 at the Lavabo was the private affair of the celebrant. The private prayers of the celebrant should have been stripped from the rite, and celebrants should have been allowed to use whatever private prayers they chose.

I agree that the new rite includes too many options. Allowing optional use of an alternative eucharistic prayer of the Antiochian type during Ordinary Time would have been sufficient. The need for a plethora of eucharistic prayers is doubtful, but inclusion of one alternative eucharistic prayer that included more thanksgiving and had a clear, linear structure would have been a desirable enrichment, I think.

Allowing alternatives to the proper introit, offertory, and communion, was probably necessary, but the alternatives ought to have been restricted to antiphonal psalmody. (Antiphonal psalmody was introduced at these places in the fifth century; but particular psalms may not have been assigned to most masses until the late seventh century.)

Gavin

If I may return us to the original topic, I must say that I'm somewhat bothered by the series of reviews by Mr. Frazier. While I have enormous respect for his scholarship, in these reviews he comes off as simply out of touch.

The fact is that these three hymnals reflect the long-held desires of MANY, MANY church musicians and Catholic laymen. I began church work in 2002, and found that, among the musicians I worked with, there was such an attitude of despair about the lack of resources and support for "good" music. (yes, there's a better way to put it, but with the audience here I trust you all know what I mean) I'm not even talking about musical elites pining for High Masses or semiological propers, or whatever. I just mean your basic Catholic who KNOWS the music is better at the smaller protestant church down the road - and can't find anyone else who cares. Just a basic matter of better hymns can be an uphill battle, done on your own, with so few resources to back you up.

Now musicians and churches of such a persuasion HAVE an option - mind you, WITHOUT taking away from the options available to the so-called "mainstream" Catholic musical world - and they get trashed as rejecting the council, closed-minded, whatever. I would go so far as to say that the overwhelming majority of Catholic musicians have felt this way for sometime, that things can be better. I say let the marketplace decide on Haugen or Wesley, Folk music or chant.

Most shocking to me are Frazier's comments on inclusive language. It strikes me that this is a common liberal tactic when arguing for inclusive language (or BCE/CE): just assert that the other side has already lost, usually while employing some pejorative ("discriminatory language" is the term Frazier used). We all know Adam W. is an eager proponent of inclusive language, and he makes his case based on solid reasoning, rather than intimidation and insults. While I have yet to find Adam's arguments convincing, kudos to him for making them!

Talk to non-musicians about what they don't like about the music in their churches. I have. One of the top answers is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS: "They changed the words from what I remember!" This is what drives the Vatican II Hymnal (and the others) to maintain traditional/original language for hymn texts. Of course, new poetry with inclusive language is very valuable (Adam has written much good stuff). But for Frazier to be unaware of the desire for original-language texts is.. odd.

As I said, he's a great musicologist, and I can't recommend highly enough his Durufle research. But these reviews seem to be written by someone who has no idea what goes on in your typical Catholic church. And I wonder how useful they can be, in light of that.

Adam Wood

Thanks for the shout out, G-man!

----Beginning of aside about inclusive language----
As an aside regarding inclusive language (and, really, any other "alternate forms of the same hymn" issue)-
There are publishers on either side of that argument who are ideologues, and have a "my way or don't use our stuff" approach. There's little option on that front when assembling a hymnal. But as we move toward more electronic resources which give communities the ability to "mix and match" their own stuff, I think wise publishers should offer multiple versions whenever feasible.

Also, I think liberal paranoia about words like "King", "Lord", and "Master" is.... a bit out of hand.
----End of aside about inclusive language----

I also thought the reviews have been a bit weird. The introduction about two forms of the Mass made it seem as if he was confusing Episcopalianism's Rite I & II with the much messier reality of International Roman Catholicism's chaotic free-for-all, except really you have to all do the same thing but you do can whatever you want as long it's what we tell you, aw- never mind, bring on the puppets and naked dancers but make sure you have the right number candles on the altar except that doesn't matter either.

ghmus7

The St. Michael Hymnal does not contain the readings, for those who asked. also, the review of the Adoremus Hymnal on Praytell was hardly at all 'scathing'.

Heath

"never mind, bring on the puppets and naked dancers but make sure you have the right number candles on the altar except that doesn't matter either."

Ha!

francis

Adam said:

"francis-

I was about to write another post explaining such and such and my opinion on whatever, but- I think such energy would be misplaced, considering the bond of charity that I believe we share.

You and I disagree on which developments were "organic" and which were "manufactured." Since (in my opinion, of course) this is really more art than science, I'm content to say that this is a matter of interpretation (over which people can differ and discuss) and not a matter of fact (over which reasonable people should agree)."

Quite honestly, No. I don't think you understand the definition of organic when the term is applied to a time tested rite. The EF has developed over centuries and has been tried and tested, revised, revisited, perfected, reperfected and then tried all over again and again.

Organic.

The NO was birthed in a 'test tube' environment, and only now is it beginning to meet the first test of time. Let's see what survives. Most of the text was replaced already in the MR3.

Synthetic.

This has nothing to do with what you and I agree upon, it has to do with what happened in history, is documented and quite obvious.

Paul_Onnonhoaraton

Here is a very interesting REVIEW of the Vatican II Hymnal by James Frazier:

REVIEW by James Frazier

kevinf

As I know Jim, it is a stunning surprise that he has written these reviews. He is a very fine musicologist and very fine musician and a lovely man. However, I am not certain when he last served as a RC( he once was RC). I am sad that he has reviewed these hymnals because as it was noted, he is a Episcopalian. I would fear that one cannot fully participate in the questions of these hymnals outside of the communion.
My .02

ScottKChicago

As an Episcopalian who was 26 years a Roman Catholic and stays very close to discussions of Roman Catholic liturgical music and has a lot of experience of it and its hymnals and graduals and other materials, I'm sad that Kevin in Kentucky finds it sad that an Episcopalian reviewed Roman Catholic hymnals. My .02

CharlesW

When any work is published, hymnal or otherwise, it is fair game for review and/or criticism. That goes with the territory.

Jahaza

The conclusion is up...

http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/10/21/hymnal-review-part-five-conclusion-hymnody-and-justice/

Congregations who hold allegiance to more traditional forms tend to isolate themselves from the larger purposes of the church, for reasons that are hard to identify. Perhaps they see themselves as the beleaguered remnant, under siege, holed up for security sake and determined to survive despite all the odds. Such a community has an inward orientation and has trouble seeing the relationship between worship in the church and work in the world.

Gavin

Hogwash.

francis

I had been thingking of a stronger word, beginning with a "b", ending with "t" and has 6 stars in the middle. the rest of the article is just as rediculous if you go and read it.

melofluent

I am profoundly disturbed that this seduction towards the plausibility of cooperation, consensus and detente has been foisted, and perhaps orchestrated not just by Frazier, but by the usual suspects of AWR and RF. Fr. Chepponis, if you read this, you should cry out to heaven for redress.
Justice? I'd be surprised if the pittance of royalties paid to the the surviving inheritors of Sebastian Temple didn't amount to more income than Jeffrey Ostrowski or Adam Bartlett earns annually from the blood, sweat and tears of their heroic efforts. I'll finish this at PTB.

CharlesW

I would rather read Ship of Fools than Pray Tell. It is much more entertaining, and often more relevant.

melofluent

In case I get disappeared at PTB, my response from there Xpost:
Having grown up, become Catholic ( in the heart of West Oakland), married and brought three children up in Oakland, Richmond and the East Bay, it is not only conceivable but likely that I learned from my friends of all ethnic backgrounds the term “The Okey Doke.” If you’re not familiar with it, it’s quite simple. Someone with cred, or what “nice people” call an expert (the person from 50 miles away carrying the briefcase who tells your crew exactly what you instruct them daily, except s/he gets paid exorbitant fees!) espouses some rhetorical constructs to deflect and lower any prejudicial hesitance that a con is just around the corner. The expert then sweetens the rapport with more sweet talk and bon mots that even the most suspicious of antagonists are surprised and let their guard down. And at the auspcious moment, the expert pulls the iron hand out of the velvet glove and delivers the sucker punch below the belt to the kidneys, and then trots off to his corner, arms raised as if just the sight of another foe vanquished magnifies his cred among his other peers. That justice regarding IP and acknowledgments is used as a smart missle to not only call into question the integrity of a fellow Christian, but a fellow serious scholar under the premise and guise of a fair, balanced and honest review process is not only most unbecoming of the expert, the heretofore respected, “nice” and objective reviewer (awash with endorsements from former students and confreres), but of the editorial staff of PTB. There is serious stuff amiss and dangerous and threatening the very survival of the Christian ethos in the global public square. And this petty, inconsequential, and that it is, Mr. Frazier, is how you want to exhort the remnant church in the English west to spit out from their mouths? I’m terribly sorry, but this sort of editorial tactic is precisely why people are exhausted with folks who behave as “limousine liberals.” This is the great metanoia about worship that my brother Todd Flowerday keeps praying…

#1 by Charles Culbreth on October 21, 2012 - 7:48 pm

Kathy

I've posted on the CC.

melofluent

Surgically precise, Kathy. You've been right about PTB all along.

CharlesW

I can't really criticize Frazier for the reviews. Overall, they are rather favorable. He doesn't say so directly, but he is right in implying that AH, VII, and St. M. are hymnals the average, mainstream parish wouldn't touch. I think all three are good hymnals. But given the state of U.S. Catholic music, they were definitely created for a niche market.

kevinf

@KAthy- Thank you for the comment.
@ScottK- While your comments are in a sense right, I know the BCP and the Angican tradition quite well, having been there for a number of years. However, I would not dare comment or write for an Anglican review as I do not understand the ins and outs of the ecclesiology. I live as an RC and live in the ecclesiology of the Roman rite, warts and all. Its not just about music, its about the state of the Church and its internal life,at the local level and the larger communion.
I thank you for calling me out.

CHGiffen

I'm not sure how long it takes for a comment to be posted at PT, but enough time has passed since I commented there that I wonder if it has not been approved and will not appear. Here, then, is the text of my comment, which responds to Paul Inwood's comment that seems to call in question whether proper approvals were obtained:

*************

The very first question asked and answered on the Q & A page for the Vatican II Hymnal at the Corpus Christi Watershed contains the answer about the necessary approvals:

1. Has your hymnal been approved by the Church ?

All of the Mass Settings included in the Vatican II Hymnal have been approved for Liturgical Use in the United States by the USCCB Secretariat of Divine Worship. The entire Vatican II Hymnal has also been approved by the Diocese of Corpus Christi.

It saddens me to find that a contributor of articles on this blog pass on innuendo in a comment on this article, without actually checking for himself, that suggests these hymnals may not have obtained necessary approvals. Shooting from the hip like this has no place here, unless it is intended to fan the flames of dissension. What a shame that respect, dignity, and charity are thus immolated. Can we not do better than this?

awruff

To CHGiffen,
I honestly never saw your comment come in for moderation at PTB. I'm not sure why - perhaps it got sent to spam and deleted. We get over 1,000 spam a day and don't read through them individually any more before doing a "delete all."
I'm sorry I didn't see your comment for moderation, it certainly would have been approved.
awr

Andrew Motyka

I would say that if the biggest criticism they can lever against the VII Hymnal is "I can't find some attributions," then it is a very good hymnal indeed.

BachLover2

Can anyone confirm definitively whether Paul Inwood is the composer of the "Cha Cha Alleluia" ?

CHGiffen

Please, please, less innuendo and speculation, more charity and respect, people!!

I did not have a copy of the Vatican II Hymnal in hand either, for the simple reasons that I gave my personal copy to someone at a church across the river in Minnesota who was considering new possibilities and that my own local parish is firmly glued to OCP.

Hence, I went to the Vatican II page at CCWatershed and checked the Q&A page ... what could be more simple for one without the hymnal in hand? I knew that the hymnal contained the necessary approvals from having seen them in my copy, but it seemed expedient to look online for the answer and, finding it easily enough, to post it.

awruff

CHGIffen - I found the comment in spam - my assistant hadn't done the "delete all" yet - and approved it.
I tried sending a message to you but MusicaSacra says I don't have permission to do that, for some reason. Ah, technology.
All best,
awr

Wendi

Well I would consider us a mainstream parish and the three hymnals reviewed all made our top five list. We ended up going with the Saint Michael. (I personally lobbied for the Vatican II hymnal but was outvoted.)

CharlesW

Some parishes seem to identify with a certain major publisher. There seem to be OCP parishes, GIA parishes, WLP parishes, and so forth. Those wouldn't likely buy from anyone else.

I could use St. Michael, if it had readings. Something the pastor insists on, which leaves that one out. I actually like Vatican II, but it does have a strange layout and there are not enough hymns for certain seasons of the year. Someone usually says "handouts" at this point, but that is not possible. Why buy a hymnal if you are going to create handouts?

ryand

Funny, Charles. My pastor wants the opposite (no readings). St. Michael seems our only viable option.

Paul_Onnonhoaraton

Why buy a hymnal if you are going to create handouts?

I would suggest that the Hymnal should cover the bulk of the readings, hymns, etc. Handouts could be used for special things that a particular parish knows or wants to learn. For myself, I cannot imagine a hymnal that has absolutely everything I would ever want to do with a parish.

My 2 cents.

CharlesW

Not my decision. The pastor forbids pew clutter, so no handouts. The exceptions are Christmas Eve, Easter Vigil, and Confirmation programs. What the hymnal contains is what we will be using.

benedictgal

What I did not appreciate was the "holier-than-thou" attitude, if I could call it that, displayed by Mr. Frazier in his concluding remarks. Just because a parish favors Traditional liturgies, including, authentic, sacred music, that does not mean that they are not generous with their time, talents and treasure. A couple of days ago, a poll was released showing that conservatives were actually more generous than liberals.

Kathy's comments about PrayTell were on target. It is sad that PT seems to be fertile ground for dissention and scathing remarks about the Holy Father (the vitriol leveled at him regarding the use of the fanon was awful), Cardinal Burke, Msgr. Wadsworth and Fr. Lang.

francis

sheep to the right, please.

noel jones, aago

The reviewer...sure was pushing his own personal agendas. Possibly this is in response to his experience working at a Catholic Cathedral?

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